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Rebuild or Re-tool? (thread merge in post #358)

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  • ebrian
    replied
    This thread wins and succinctly summarizes every thought I had (and many others') in the rebuild/re-tool thread, except I think we're missing some thoughts from a few more guys. Magoon, Axel, Matt all kind of sum up what my thinking has always been, but perhaps in a way that was less confusing. I'm not always great at getting my point across without adding the snarkiness that turns a reader off.

    I do not think JV is untouchable. I think it might make some people upset if he were traded so it'd have to be a really fantastic deal.. but I don't see him as the future 'dominant big man' that others think (I also don't think you need a dominant big man to win anymore).

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  • Miekenstien
    replied
    voted tanker but really i only want gay gone. i like demar but i wouldn't be upset if he got us into the 2014 lottery either.

    on the thread title shouldn't it be whatever the worlds population is on 5? even in the entire universe there would be a finite amount of opinions.

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  • NoPropsneeded
    replied
    lilmamba_ wrote: View Post
    carmelo gets nothing but gold star and hes 29
    What are you talking about?

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  • p00ka
    replied
    lilmamba_ wrote: View Post
    as soon as rudy got to toronto, there was a different vibe in the locker room and acc (even though i wasn't there you could tell)
    this team is a better team knowing that there a better team. everyone started to play better. lowry made some clutch shots vs the knicks and the rudy gay and amir Johnson game vs the pacers, demar and even anderson started to play well. to sum it up we need rudy gay it doesnt matter if were over paying him, he'll be the one guarding lebron in the first round of the playoffs next season.
    That's one of the big things that makes Gay a good risk to re-sign at a good price. When playing even near his ability, he's one of the few guys around that has the height, length and skills to guard the likes of LeBron, KD, George, as well as make them work on defence. If you're ever going to get anywhere in the playoffs for the next 10 years, you have to go through them.

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  • lilmamba_
    replied
    NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post
    Maybe
    carmelo gets nothing but gold star and hes 29

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  • lilmamba_
    replied
    Soft Euro wrote: View Post
    Rudy Gay hasn't shown a lot of this, at least if we look at this year. His combined (Memphis and Toronto) clutch stats according to nba.com for this year: 95 minutes, only 10 freethrows (not a lot of calls), shooting 22 of 63 (1/8 on threepointers) for a total of 54 points on 63 shots. Bargnani would be ashamed of those stats.

    I also think a lot of the closer stuff is overrated because we tend to remember the makes. Some of the so-called closers don't have very impressive clutch stats and miss a lot of gamewinners as well; they just take zillions of shots in clutch time and the makes make the highlights.
    as soon as rudy got to toronto, there was a different vibe in the locker room and acc (even though i wasn't there you could tell)
    this team is a better team knowing that there a better team. everyone started to play better. lowry made some clutch shots vs the knicks and the rudy gay and amir Johnson game vs the pacers, demar and even anderson started to play well. to sum it up we need rudy gay it doesnt matter if were over paying him, he'll be the one guarding lebron in the first round of the playoffs next season.

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  • NoPropsneeded
    replied
    lilmamba_ wrote: View Post
    your never to old for a gold star -.-
    Maybe

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  • lilmamba_
    replied
    NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post
    Haha, i was thinking that. But i thought you'd feel insulted because that's usually what they give 5 year olds in Kindergarten
    your never to old for a gold star -.-

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  • NoPropsneeded
    replied
    lilmamba_ wrote: View Post
    high five?? where you going i deserve a gold star
    Haha, i was thinking that. But i thought you'd feel insulted because that's usually what they give 5 year olds in Kindergarten

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  • lilmamba_
    replied
    high five?? where you going i deserve a gold star

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  • NoPropsneeded
    replied
    lilmamba_ wrote: View Post
    but we need him, personally i haven't seen him choke or shy away, but even then he gets us the calls and respect from the officials and league, lowry, demar and jv dont get the same sorta respect and if were gonna move on without rudy, its gonna be difficult.

    most people say that if we leggo of rudy we can build around jv. most final/playoff caliber teams build around a closer, take the lakers, they had an option between shaq or kobe and they chose kobe, even though shaq went on to win another ring. why? .. because kobe could close out games even though shaq was good at keeping the other team out of the paint (like jv) and could score on the inside (like jv) and airballed free throws (unlike jv, i appreciate the fact that he can shoot free throws and his percentage is actually pretty high) but still i wouldnt chose to build a team around jonas valaciunas. (okc and dallas are some examples too)
    Wow i'm impressed, you know more than i thought you did. Good work! you deserve a high five

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  • Arsenalist
    replied
    Great thread, man.

    BTW, Valanciunas might be the most consistent answer.

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  • Miekenstien
    replied
    Bendit wrote: View Post
    Yet apparently they were only about 4.5 mill. apart on what Harden supposedly refused to budge on. Presti could have even have deferred the decision until after the season I believe (unless I am missing something) as Harden would be a rfa and OKC would still have right of match alongwith a more sober approach with time to move pieces (Ibaka) and amnestying (Perkins) plus getting a crack at the title. Re Presti's talent eval. genius his pick of Aldrich was also a scratcher and Perkins (?). Cant draw aces everytime I suppose. Here is a decent piece on all the machinations regarding the Harden move:

    http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/...ouston-rockets
    Thought presti had durant and westbrook not maxed so they could keep the team together and harden wanted max money.

    Presti hasnt lost his talent evaluation, harden was that good in OC, he just came off the bench and didnt get 35+ minutes a night. They got everything they wanted from that trade. Havent seen pj3 play much, who knows how he develops, 2 durants are better than one. Lamb still has a lot of potential as the 2 guard as well. Maybe this year we see him get a minute.

    Because OC doesnt suck they dont develop their young guys by playing 20+ minutes a night, but that doesnt mean they arent developing them.

    This is a trade where if OC gets a championship they made the right decision but if they dont, then they missed the chance.

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  • Bendit
    replied
    p00ka wrote: View Post
    I don't know about other issues, but it was always said that Presti had a choice to make between Ibaka and Harden. They couldn't stay away from luxury tax and pay them both. He chose Ibaka (great shot blocker, but what else?) and gave Harden up for 3 bit pieces. I guess the shine of Presti's talent evaluation genius is starting to wear off, as it's a lot easier to find an Ibaka than it is to find a Harden.
    Yet apparently they were only about 4.5 mill. apart on what Harden supposedly refused to budge on. Presti could have even have deferred the decision until after the season I believe (unless I am missing something) as Harden would be a rfa and OKC would still have right of match alongwith a more sober approach with time to move pieces (Ibaka) and amnestying (Perkins) plus getting a crack at the title. Re Presti's talent eval. genius his pick of Aldrich was also a scratcher and Perkins (?). Cant draw aces everytime I suppose. Here is a decent piece on all the machinations regarding the Harden move:

    http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/...ouston-rockets

    Leave a comment:


  • mcHAPPY
    replied
    Fully wrote: View Post
    I don't think I've encountered a single person who thought the Rudy Gay for Charlie V & Stuckey deal was a good idea, regardless of how steadfastly they supported a rebuild.

    The idea isn't to start giving away starting calibre players for ten cents on the dollar just to try and win less than 15 games. It's about stockpiling resources - whether they be prospects, picks or financial flexibility - while improving your own 2014 draft pick in the process by decreasing the talent level on the floor in the short term. You also allow the young talent on your team to develop without a win now mandate.

    Tanking, rebuilding, roster overhaul, major retooling, etc. You can call it a dozen different things. The major point is that we cease moving forward with a core of Gay/Lowry/DD and having the mentality that it's 8th seed or bust.

    WE HAVE A WINNER!

    A simple like was not sufficient enough. If the Raptors are trading away any of the pieces that give people ammunition to support making a playoff push then you are getting real assets (genuine NBA players on rookie deals, prospects who might be buried on a bench, and draft picks) in addition to flexibility (expirings) in return. Gay for CV and Stuckey was a farce no matter which side of the fence you sit on.

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