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Rebuild or Re-tool? (thread merge in post #358)

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  • Puffer
    replied
    Dino4life wrote: View Post
    http://hoopshype.com/articles/sierra...to-their-teams

    10% Via free agency
    24.6% Via Trade
    65.3% Via Draft
    This article looks good enough to "sticky" someplace so it will be readily available whenever this conversation comes up. I haven't read the whole thing, so there may be provisos, but it seems to be a pretty comprehensive breakdown.

    Leave a comment:


  • Soft Euro
    replied
    Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Boston
    Chicago
    Atlanta
    Indiana
    Miami
    Orlando (Henningan is only in his 2nd year but they are on a very good path)
    Golden State
    Houston
    Clippers
    Lakers (despite shit show of late)
    OKC
    San Antonio
    Utah


    They are all teams that I would say are well managed.
    I'd say you even leave out some well managed teams, e.g. the Warriors are going up and are doing well the last couple of years with their decisions. The jury is now out on Denver, but it was well managed. And, despite all the criticism, the Nets have done exactly what they wanted to do and nobody can deny their relevancy at the moment and their great marketing. I personally think Memphis is not badly managed as well.

    Leave a comment:


  • mcHAPPY
    replied
    blackjitsu wrote: View Post
    Come on Matt, there are what 4 well managed teams in the NBA? Poor management doesn't disprove his fact at all. The only well managed team to win the lottery was San Antonio.
    Boston
    Chicago
    Atlanta
    Indiana
    Miami
    Orlando (Henningan is only in his 2nd year but they are on a very good path)
    Golden State
    Houston
    Clippers
    Lakers (despite shit show of late)
    OKC
    San Antonio
    Utah


    They are all teams that I would say are well managed.

    Leave a comment:


  • saints91
    replied
    I'm opposed to tanking, but if we are going forward with this team as it is, we'll be stuck in no man's land. Bad draft picks, or just scraping into the playoffs.

    I don't think we can really judge Rudy yet, but I think he'll be an all star next year. With training camp, the surgery and an off season with us, he'll be a way better player. He was already pretty impressive.

    What I would like to see is a move for a young PF like Tristan Thompson, or someone of that calibre, that can grow with this team. I think we have the assets to get someone.

    If DeMar, JV, and Ross can improve we'll have a good team going forward.

    Leave a comment:


  • blackjitsu
    replied
    Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Bad examples.

    Both teams were horribly mismanaged and had no flexibility to make meaningful additions.

    Cap space and exceptions were not used to secure value contracts.

    Trades were shortsighted and each trade made the flexibility less and less.
    Come on Matt, there are what 4 well managed teams in the NBA? Poor management doesn't disprove his fact at all. The only well managed team to win the lottery was San Antonio.

    Leave a comment:


  • Lefty
    replied
    Tanking is the way to go. Why? Because I don't see anyway in hell we end up in the finals, let alone ECF with this core. Say in a year or two down the road, we add another borderline all star. Not cutting it. We are not even sniffing the Larry Obrien with this team. So if we want to win, we gotta go in another direction. DRAFT 2014, has at least five projected franchise players, if not more. Those are very good odds. We have a bigger chance of winning with a franchise cornerstone from next year's draft along with JV, then from our current roster, tweaked and all.

    Leave a comment:


  • magoon
    replied
    LBF wrote: View Post
    And if you don't get that for Gay?
    Then you're going to lose with him rather than without him. Like we've said before: Rudy is not a bad player. He's an overpaid one who isn't getting the job done for us, but that's not his fault: that's BC's fault for pretending he was a franchise player when he wasn't one.

    Most of the pro-tankers here were completely opposed to the Detroit offer last week because it was laughably low. That hasn't changed, but the Detroit offer was the start of a good offer: if they had thrown in KCP and a draft pick, say, it might well have been worth considering. Expiring contracts, a good young prospect, and picks: that's the currency we want for our overpaid-but-competent players.

    Leave a comment:


  • LBF
    replied
    qb5PHILA@hotmail.com wrote: View Post
    I can play this game too. What happens is we trade rudy gay for some draft picks, rotation player and expirings. We have demar, wiggins and jv as a big three. Then we fill out our bench with the draft picks, tross, and FAs with the cap space. Kinda basic
    And if you don't get that for Gay?

    Leave a comment:


  • Jclaw
    replied
    Here's an interesting read from the detroit side of things after the JSmith signing

    http://www.pistonpowered.com/2013/07...ng-josh-smith/

    You could argue we were similar teams before. Not very good. Promising young centre. Some other pieces that had promise but no all stars. Some bad contracts.
    So, given that, interesting to see their thoughts on going for it this year.

    As a side note, it does bring up the question of who exactly is going to be the pointguard to lead that big frontcourt

    Leave a comment:


  • phez
    replied
    No one should be surprised at the lack of FA movement within the raptors. Just remind yourself the position BC left us in, our assets, and the contracts and costs to go with them.

    Leave a comment:


  • mcHAPPY
    replied
    Matt52 wrote: View Post
    *BUMP*

    Ahhhh, the original thread that ignited numerous threads centering around the Great Raptor Debate of 2013.... to tear it down or not to tear it down, that is the question.


    I think I've moved to the tear it down side with the assumption that every trade is returning valuable assets rather than just clearing cap space. In any trade, you need proven NBA talent and picks (at this point in time I would consider any player picked in 2013 a pick since they have yet to play an NBA minute).

    Too many weaker teams making improvements that are passing the Raptors (Washington) or making it too close to call (Cleveland, Detroit) and too many stronger teams still strong (Miami, Indiana, Chicago, Brooklyn, New York) or weaker but still likely just as good if not better (Milwaukee, Atlanta).




    Looking at Rudy Gay, I'd call up these three teams and offer:

    Detroit - Monroe, Knight, 1st available pick, Stuckey, Charlie V

    Cleveland - Thompson, CJ Miles, rights to Karasev, 2014 pick

    Charlotte - rights to Zeller, Gordon, 2014 Pistons pick (top 8 protected), Portland pick (top 12 protected), right to swap own Raptor pick with theirs

    Of the 3 I like Cleveland best, then Charlotte, then Detroit.
    Just a follow up to this, particularly the bold:

    Essentially the competition for 7-11 has increased significantly and the Raptors were already a 7-11 team as constructed. Seems like 11 could be more of a possibility than 7 right now.

    Leave a comment:


  • qb5PHILA@hotmail.com
    replied
    I can play this game too. What happens is we trade rudy gay for some draft picks, rotation player and expirings. We have demar, wiggins and jv as a big three. Then we fill out our bench with the draft picks, tross, and FAs with the cap space. Kinda basic

    Leave a comment:


  • ebrian
    replied
    Even if we had a poorly mismanaged team, we're talking about Cleveland who went 5 of 7 years making it all the way to the conference semifinals, one conference finals appearance and one finals appearance.

    What did you expect, that we tanked and then went on to win 10 championships in a row?

    Leave a comment:


  • mcHAPPY
    replied
    Jclaw wrote: View Post
    i think the easiest way to see this from both sides is that in order for us to try and get a good draft pick this year, we really don't have to do much different than we've been trying to do for the past few years. Play the young guys, see what comes together. What ever bold moves there are to move forward...let's just hold off for one year and do it then.
    Any bold moves would come from trading Gay, Lowry, and DD. In one year:

    Gay will have a player option and not be eligible for trade until July 1st assuming he picks it up. With new CBA it makes most sense for players to become UFA before signing therefore teams might not give up big assets to watch a player walk (unless you are Milwaukee and send Harris to Orlando). Gay might not take that next step so many, including Casey, are hoping for. The argument that DeRozan is what he is is equally applicable to Gay.

    Lowry will be UFA and is not eligible to be traded after deadline unless it is a S&T. He is one of the few Raptors not on a rookie deal that is actual value. By trading him whatever team gets him would at least have Bird Rights.

    DeRozan will have taken the next step or everyone will finally agree he is what he is - overpaid inefficient one dimensional volume scorer. Right now he at least has potential.


    If the Raps are being bold, I think now is the time to maximize return.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jclaw
    replied
    i think the easiest way to see this from both sides is that in order for us to try and get a good draft pick this year, we really don't have to do much different than we've been trying to do for the past few years. Play the young guys, see what comes together. What ever bold moves there are to move forward...let's just hold off for one year and do it then.

    Leave a comment:

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