Rebuild or Re-tool? (thread merge in post #358)

[magoon]

so...adding these tea leaves to the picture....are we tanking or tooling?

WE'RE RETOOLING: See, Masai just chopped off some useless salary and gave us room to maneuver! Getting rid of Bargs makes the team better because we don't have him!

WE'RE TANKING: If Masai can get this much for Bargs, what can he get us for a GOOD player?

[magoon]

2 picks for Bargs, and a shooting specialist? That would be a pretty good deal.

Calling Novak a "shooting specialist" underscores the fact that he literally has no game besides shooting threes. Smart teams just guard him and keep him from shooting and he becomes a liability on the floor. He is a very limited roleplayer at best, but if he can help DeMar and TRoss work on their shots he's worth it.

[Jclaw]

so...adding these tea leaves to the picture....are we tanking or tooling?

[white men can't jump]

Also one of the better opportunities for Bargs. Good pairing with Chandler. Can actually play at the 3 pt line, delivering entry passes to Melo in the post and waiting for kickouts. Can play the pick and pop with Felton.

[white men can't jump]

Holly MacKenzie @stackmack 2m:
RT @HowardBeckNYT: Knicks appear close to acquiring Andrea Bargnani from Toronto. NY offering Camby, Novak, 2 picks (1st rd/2nd rd).

2 picks for Bargs, and a shooting specialist? That would be a pretty good deal.

[wallz]

You're joking!

It's all over twitter. it's pretty close to happening

[brickwall281]

Barg close to being dealt to New York for Camby, Novak, 1st rd pick and a 2nd rd pick!!

You're joking!

[wallz]

Holly MacKenzie @stackmack 2m:
RT @HowardBeckNYT: Knicks appear close to acquiring Andrea Bargnani from Toronto. NY offering Camby, Novak, 2 picks (1st rd/2nd rd).

[wallz]

Barg close to being dealt to New York for Camby, Novak, 1st rd pick and a 2nd rd pick!!

[wallz]

Josh Lewenberg @JLew1050 5m
"Have heard that amnestying Bargnani, at least for now, is off the table for Raps. Multiple teams have expressed interest in trading for him"


Excellent

[Joey]

One would be better off kidnapping Gilbert's son and having him represent your team at the lottery.

HAH Nominate this for Quote of the year.

[Bendit]

Is "tanking" only reserved for the #1 selection? That is a fools choice with the lottery process...which was precisely put in place to make it a non-guarantee. One would be better off kidnapping Gilbert's son and having him represent your team at the lottery. In a draft such as the 2014 the only sane and logical strategy for a team like the Raptors is to take the road Boston is doing...putting your team in the best position to draft high with a selection of picks not just next year but the next 4 years. That is a strategy not a tanking. The rules of the NBA force this process to be considered. Getting a pick in the top 3-4 will net any team a very good player. I of course prefer this course because of the opinion what we have is not a very good collection of assets and one of our youngest is also one with a very good ceiling (JV). If the Bledsoe rumors are true MU thinks so too...he is willing to ultimately let Lowry go.

[CalgaryRapsFan]

We can agree to disagree about this. Raptors after all have had a #1 pick. Go through the number one picks of the last 15 years and count the flameouts, not to mention the players who never became franchise players. Then count the number of guys picked in the top 5. How many of them turned into franchise talents? Now how many all stars came from picks #8 and lower?

A lot of top five picks paid off for their teams. But the Raps have had two #4 picks that paid off for a while then left the franchise in worse shape then before. So much for knowable risk. But if I am working with a guy every day, and that guy is putting in the work, I know that guy is going to get better. And if he is unwilling to work, I'm trading his ass and finding someone who is willing to buy in and commit.

Interesting that you bring up this point, as I remember reading an interesting Tweet from one of the guys on ESPN last week, who brought up a quirky stat about #1 overall picks. Since 1986, only 2 #1 overall draft picks have ever won the NBA championship with the team that drafted them - David Robinson & Tim Duncan.

Even if the Raptors manage to successfully tank next season AND get lucky in the draft lottery, it's still far from even being in the same ballpark as a guarantee, that long-term success - let alone an NBA championship - will come the Raptors' way. Food for thought for the pro-tankers out there.

[Puffer]

Of course, what you're forgetting is that everything in sports management is calculated risk. ...Tanking is a relatively knowable risk in that you have a good idea of what you're tanking for: a prized rookie contract (or more than one) that has intrinsic value around the league and where you have a reasonably good, albeit imperfect, idea of what the player's level is. It's frankly a lot more certain than assuming inherent player improvement, which is what the anti-tank faction seems to be asserting will happen.

We can agree to disagree about this. Raptors after all have had a #1 pick. Go through the number one picks of the last 15 years and count the flameouts, not to mention the players who never became franchise players. Then count the number of guys picked in the top 5. How many of them turned into franchise talents? Now how many all stars came from picks #8 and lower?

A lot of top five picks paid off for their teams. But the Raps have had two #4 picks that paid off for a while then left the franchise in worse shape then before. So much for knowable risk. But if I am working with a guy every day, and that guy is putting in the work, I know that guy is going to get better. And if he is unwilling to work, I'm trading his ass and finding someone who is willing to buy in and commit.

[magoon]

We can agree to disagree. I think that tanking puts your fate in the hands of chance...you might call it taking a calculated risk. Taking the other route, where you work hard to improve your assets, try to manage smart, get through the next couple of years trying to win and shedding the bad contracts and drafting smart so you DO have assets when it is time to make a push just seems like you are taking more control of your future.

Of course, what you're forgetting is that everything in sports management is calculated risk. DeMar could never find his shot, Rudy's eye problem could get worse, JoVal could break his leg at the start of the season and be out of basketball forever.

Tanking is a relatively knowable risk in that you have a good idea of what you're tanking for: a prized rookie contract (or more than one) that has intrinsic value around the league and where you have a reasonably good, albeit imperfect, idea of what the player's level is. It's frankly a lot more certain than assuming inherent player improvement, which is what the anti-tank faction seems to be asserting will happen.