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Rebuild or Re-tool? (thread merge in post #358)

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  • Apollo wrote: View Post
    A lot can happen between now and then. Kabongo was viewed as a possible top prospect for 2013 a few years ago; people were making Rondo comparisons. My how things can change with time.

    Flip side, last year Waiters wasn't on anyone's radar until workouts. He had good workouts and it changed the draft. One unexpected pick ahead have killed dreams and made dreams. This is why I'd rather them make conscious moves for rookie players on draft day.

    You know, like the Pacers did to get Hibbert a few years back? Or like Boston did to get Rondo?
    I believe Barnes was a #1 prospect for his junior and senior year of high school.... and 1.5 months of freshman college.

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    • The next 2 - 3 years is going to be interesting because guys like LeBron, CP3 and Melo etc.., are going to start to fade....hard to beleive LeBron's already been in the league for 10 years. It's going to be the new crop of stars that are leading the NBA, the Irving's and Griffin's of the league. It's time to get in on the action with the next crop of star players by getting into the draft and taking our chances, imo.

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      • LeBron is a freak of nature and barring injury will be playing at a very high level for at least another 6 - 8 years
        For still frame photograph of me reading the DeRozan thread please refer to my avatar

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        • His size will allow him to play until 40 if he wants. He can change his game a little and become a power forward later in his career is he looses some of that speed.

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          • TRex wrote: View Post
            Anyway, i'm starting to warm up in the idea of 'tanking'. Keep only JV and Ross. Very risky i know but the 2014 draft is so deep that even if you miss out on Wiggins, there's still Parker, Randle, Vonleh etc.

            Like seiz here said, if the goal is to win a championship and sustain long term success i think you have to tank specially when you look at the players that will be available in the 2014 draft. UNLESS you can trade for or sign an all-star caliber player now like an Al Jefferson.
            Are you SURE Wiggins, Parker, Randle...are next sure thing?
            Lets go back a bit:
            -Few years ago A Rivers was a sure thing. He slips to No 10 in draft -and that was very very generous;
            -Last year the was a lot of talk of S Mohamed (?). Where is he now? Likely mid to late lottery pick at the best.
            -What about Kabongo? -Likely late first or even second round.
            Clips, Wiz & Wolves are perhaps best examples why tanking (intentionally or not) does not USUALLY work.
            Last edited by Mapko; Sat Jun 8, 2013, 04:55 PM.

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            • My head says re-tool.

              My heart says rebuild.


              Rebuilding (i.e. trading Lowry, Gay, DeRozan for picks, prospects, and expirings) is so exciting because of the unknown and potential for greatness if things work out. It is also dangerous because of the unknown and potential for awfulness if things do not work out.

              Both require capitalizing on circumstances with rebuilding through the draft having much less ability to create your own success.


              I can't wait for the draft.

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              • Mediumcore wrote: View Post
                The next 2 - 3 years is going to be interesting because guys like LeBron, CP3 and Melo etc.., are going to start to fade....hard to beleive LeBron's already been in the league for 10 years. It's going to be the new crop of stars that are leading the NBA, the Irving's and Griffin's of the league. It's time to get in on the action with the next crop of star players by getting into the draft and taking our chances, imo.
                LeBron is only 27. Paul only 28. Melo 29. These guys can still play at a very high level the next 6-8 years.

                Look at Kobe. 34 years old and is still a top 5 player in the game. Top 3 actually. Just behind LeBron and Durant.
                Mamba Mentality

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                • Rebuild. Take it all down and bottom out.
                  The franchise has a core group of fans that won't abandon the team when the going gets rough (most of them are here on the forums).
                  MLSE has the finances to withstand the dip in sales (tickets, ads, merchandise) for the next 2-4 years.
                  Then the team will burst on the scene with a group of young, highly skilled players and will be the darling of the league.

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                  • TRex wrote: View Post
                    LeBron is only 27. Paul only 28. Melo 29. These guys can still play at a very high level the next 6-8 years.

                    Look at Kobe. 34 years old and is still a top 5 player in the game. Top 3 actually. Just behind LeBron and Durant.
                    I'm saying that I think they will begin to fade not that they will be ready to retire. The "next" crop of stars will be ready to challenge these guys for best in the NBA status and my point is if we get into the draft now we could be part of the group challenging those guys.

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                    • Soft Euro wrote: View Post
                      Sidenote: a lot of times people bring up a team like Atlanta, and suggest this is what will happen when you get into that mediocrity territory, that you are somehow stuck there forever, that it is impossible to grow from there. I don't know why that would be the case. With good management there will always be possibilities when you focus not just on that very year to get players like Splitter, Hibbert or even McGee to develop with upside instead of getting players like Bibby, Collins, Maurice Evans, Joe Smith or even Crawford and Pachulia. You're stuck in mediocrity if you have a good but not great core and you put veterans next to them with the intention to win as much as possible that year (even if it's not at all a give that this in fact will help you win more, but that's somewhat beside the sidepoint).
                      But when you commit that much of the cap to that core you sort of have to go for it all don't you?

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                      • I think I have talked myself in to a total rebuild on some conditions.

                        1) you need to get a top 5 pick this year and one more,
                        2) you need to get at least two extra 2014 picks (with own 3),
                        3) you need to get back 1-2 players in the mold of Fields or Amir (< 25 years old proven role players that are highly efficient players).
                        4) you have extra cap space for 2014-15 season to be a facilitator in deals or take on salary for tax fearing teams (for a price).


                        It is not very often a team enters in to a rebuild with the hardest piece already in place - that of course being the C and JV.

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                        • Matt52 wrote: View Post
                          I think I have talked myself in to a total rebuild on some conditions.

                          1) you need to get a top 5 pick this year and one more,
                          2) you need to get at least two extra 2014 picks (with own 3),
                          3) you need to get back 1-2 players in the mold of Fields or Amir (< 25 years old proven role players that are highly efficient players).
                          4) you have extra cap space for 2014-15 season to be a facilitator in deals or take on salary for tax fearing teams (for a price).


                          It is not very often a team enters in to a rebuild with the hardest piece already in place - that of course being the C and JV.
                          I was expecting us to try and build around JV in the 2015 offseason when all the big contracts come off the books. The Ujiri hiring just speeds up the process, and also helps to ensure a proper build-around, and not whatever BC would end up doing.

                          I'd also love a top 5 pick this year, maybe even top 7. I'm fairly confident Gay could bring back one of those picks in a trade. Not sure if DD could but I suppose it's possible. Ross and JV are the only other guys on the roster that could do it but I wouldn't want to send one of them out. Lowry might be enough to get a first round pick this year as well, but not top 7.

                          No idea how we could also get 2 more picks in next years draft, we just don't have any more assets, especially in a draft that is highly valued in 2014. So I'm not sure if we could meet all your points above even if that was the goal.

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                          • Primer wrote: View Post
                            I was expecting us to try and build around JV in the 2015 offseason when all the big contracts come off the books. The Ujiri hiring just speeds up the process, and also helps to ensure a proper build-around, and not whatever BC would end up doing.

                            I'd also love a top 5 pick this year, maybe even top 7. I'm fairly confident Gay could bring back one of those picks in a trade. Not sure if DD could but I suppose it's possible. Ross and JV are the only other guys on the roster that could do it but I wouldn't want to send one of them out. Lowry might be enough to get a first round pick this year as well, but not top 7.

                            No idea how we could also get 2 more picks in next years draft, we just don't have any more assets, especially in a draft that is highly valued in 2014. So I'm not sure if we could meet all your points above even if that was the goal.
                            It would involve taking on some pretty bad contracts. I had some ideas in this thread:

                            http://www.raptorsrepublic.com/forum...l=1#post212359

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                            • PGS in the draft to be on the radar

                              Burke
                              Schroeder
                              Larkin
                              MCW
                              Kbongo

                              Lowry is awesome but his emotional state and hot headedness is a concern to me Raps need to draft a guard.

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                              • Rapstor4Life wrote: View Post
                                PGS in the draft to be on the radar

                                Burke
                                Schroeder
                                Larkin
                                MCW
                                Kbongo

                                Lowry is awesome but his emotional state and hot headedness is a concern to me Raps need to draft a guard.
                                Agreed. I would put MCW a little higher though in my opinion, possibly over Larkin, and I think we can include Seth Curry, haven't watched too much about him, but friends and basketball people I talk to are high on him.

                                I also feel this team needs to draft another big, if possible, preferably a centre, Aaron Gray is a 3rd stringer at best, and back-up against bigger centres like Hibbert, Dwight, etc. Power forward position will be addressed via trade.

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