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Rebuild or Re-tool? (thread merge in post #358)

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  • Personally, I'm a fan of how Clevland re-built their team post LBJ, through the draft (doesn't hurt that they hit the jackpot twice in 3 years). I'm just not a fan of their drafting. I think they could have made better choices where they selected, but never the less the method was sound imo.

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    • Mediumcore wrote: View Post
      Personally, I'm a fan of how Clevland re-built their team post LBJ, through the draft (doesn't hurt that they hit the jackpot twice in 3 years). I'm just not a fan of their drafting. I think they could have made better choices where they selected, but never the less the method was sound imo.
      The Cavs are using the OKC model of trying to get studs with high picks. It's pale in comparison to what Presti got in return but it was still smart. The only question now is can he build properly around Irving so that he doesn't flee the first chance he gets. Getting Bynum is a very risky move but if it works they will be a hard team to beat.

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      • Mediumcore wrote: View Post
        Personally, I'm a fan of how Clevland re-built their team post LBJ, through the draft (doesn't hurt that they hit the jackpot twice in 3 years). I'm just not a fan of their drafting. I think they could have made better choices where they selected, but never the less the method was sound imo.
        Yet another concern with all-out tanking. Even when you successfully tank and get lucky in the draft lottery, there's still no guarantee any/all your top draft picks are going to work out. I do agree that some of their picks were just terrible though, but it still goes to show what a crap-shoot drafting can be.

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        • CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
          Yet another concern with all-out tanking. Even when you successfully tank and get lucky in the draft lottery, there's still no guarantee any/all your top draft picks are going to work out. I do agree that some of their picks were just terrible though, but it still goes to show what a crap-shoot drafting can be.
          Corect me if im wrong here.

          Next season, isnt Kyrie due for a max extension? And if they do get Lebron, he'd probably get somewhere between 20-25 maybe even 30 (kobe) per season. When the time comes, how will they be able to re-sign Thompson, Waiters and Bennett?

          So eventually, they wouldve drafted all 3 for nothing?

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          • TheGloveinRapsUniform wrote: View Post
            Corect me if im wrong here.

            Next season, isnt Kyrie due for a max extension? And if they do get Lebron, he'd probably get somewhere between 20-25 maybe even 30 (kobe) per season. When the time comes, how will they be able to re-sign Thompson, Waiters and Bennett?

            So eventually, they wouldve drafted all 3 for nothing?
            I suppose it depends whether or not Cleveland ownership is willing to go into the tax. If LBJ comes back, I think you worry about all those details later and don't give a second thought to throwing your rebuild out the window... it's LBJ!

            The only players with guaranteed contracts for the 2014-15 season are:
            - Jack ($6.1M)
            - rookies who haven't signed yet (Bennett, Karasev)

            Every other player on Cleveland's roster is either a non-guaranteed contract (Varejao, Clark & Gee), team option (Irving, Bynum, Thompsom, Waiters & Zeller) or qualifying offer (Jones).

            Irving & Thompson have qualifying offers for the 2015-16 season. Waiters & Zeller have qualifying offers for the 2016-17 season. Needless to say, they have loads of flexibility and ample time to cash in their young assets if need be.

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            • TheGloveinRapsUniform wrote: View Post
              Corect me if im wrong here.

              Next season, isnt Kyrie due for a max extension? And if they do get Lebron, he'd probably get somewhere between 20-25 maybe even 30 (kobe) per season. When the time comes, how will they be able to re-sign Thompson, Waiters and Bennett?

              So eventually, they wouldve drafted all 3 for nothing?
              Just a comment on LBJ commanding 30 mil. ala Kobe. Not possible as per cba rules. Kobe has achieved that lofty status by being a max player for sometime now, under at least 1-2 previous more player friendly cba/s and due to mandatory yearly percentage increases on his salary.

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              • Bendit wrote: View Post
                Just a comment on LBJ commanding 30 mil. ala Kobe. Not possible as per cba rules. Kobe has achieved that lofty status by being a max player for sometime now, under at least 1-2 previous cba/s and due to mandatory yearly percentage increases on his salary.
                Thank you. What will his max be?

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                • TheGloveinRapsUniform wrote: View Post
                  Corect me if im wrong here.

                  Next season, isnt Kyrie due for a max extension? And if they do get Lebron, he'd probably get somewhere between 20-25 maybe even 30 (kobe) per season. When the time comes, how will they be able to re-sign Thompson, Waiters and Bennett?

                  So eventually, they wouldve drafted all 3 for nothing?
                  A few corrections:

                  Irving won't be eligible for his extension until the summer of 2015. They can even do a qualifying offer the following year if they wish, but I'm sure they'll lock him up long term the first opportunity they get. He will get the same $58million /4 year deal that guys like Hibbert, Lopez and Eric Gordon have signed recently.

                  Lebron won't make $30 million. Kobe's deal was under a prior CB. LBJ will be somewhere around the $20 million mark, similar to what Chris Paul just got as his "max" deal.

                  Thompson and Waiters are not projected to be max contract type players. Bennett it is way too early to call obviously. Regardless, it will be another 3-4 years before they are due for their first big pay bump; Now is not the time to start panicking about signing them all, especially when we have no idea what their value will be then. Plus there's always the option that Cleveland goes into the luxury tax to keep most or all of them if they are close to being a championship contender when they're due for a re-up.

                  They also have the choice to trade one of them before their extension, similar to what OKC did with Harden. You may not get equal value in that scenario, but you do get assets back. The idea that they drafted three guys in the top five for "nothing" is pretty far fetched.

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                  • TheGloveinRapsUniform wrote: View Post
                    Thank you. What will his max be?
                    Cant be absolutely sure because # of years of service might come into play or a s&t....but Howard just choosing to go to Houston maxed out at 22 per for 4 yrs.

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                    • CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
                      Yet another concern with all-out tanking. Even when you successfully tank and get lucky in the draft lottery, there's still no guarantee any/all your top draft picks are going to work out. I do agree that some of their picks were just terrible though, but it still goes to show what a crap-shoot drafting can be.
                      Yeah, but that's like saying Portland should never have drafted Oden. Drafting him was the right thing to do. The fact that it didn't work out was bad luck.

                      If you can put yourself in the best position to succeed and you don't succeed, then it's not anyones fault. You've done the correct thing imo.

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                      • TheGloveinRapsUniform wrote: View Post
                        Corect me if im wrong here.

                        Next season, isnt Kyrie due for a max extension? And if they do get Lebron, he'd probably get somewhere between 20-25 maybe even 30 (kobe) per season. When the time comes, how will they be able to re-sign Thompson, Waiters and Bennett?

                        So eventually, they wouldve drafted all 3 for nothing?
                        If you can get LeBron and Kyrie then why would it matter if you could sign those 3 guys? If any of them turn into elite players by the time they need to be resigned then you go into the luxury tax if need be but keep in mind it's unlikely any of them will command max dollars, and if not then you can trade them for peices that fit better around LBJ and Kyrie.

                        If Miami's success and what Houston has done recently and what San Antonio has been doing for years shows me anything it's that you should do whatever it takes to get elite talent on your team and then worry about the peices around them after that.

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                        • TheGloveinRapsUniform wrote: View Post
                          Corect me if im wrong here.

                          Next season, isnt Kyrie due for a max extension? And if they do get Lebron, he'd probably get somewhere between 20-25 maybe even 30 (kobe) per season. When the time comes, how will they be able to re-sign Thompson, Waiters and Bennett?

                          So eventually, they wouldve drafted all 3 for nothing?
                          When you draft players like Irving and Thompson, it can NEVER be for nothing. In the event that Lebron decides to return, there are a number of things they can do to strengthen the team(present, future or both). If Irving is made available, the return would be AMAZING.
                          Attitude Is A Choice.

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                          • I don't think they Cavs ever made it their strategy to build through the draft. It just worked out that way because their teams have been terrible.
                            You come at the King, you best not miss.

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                            • Mr.Z wrote: View Post
                              I don't think they Cavs ever made it their strategy to build through the draft. It just worked out that way because their teams have been terrible.
                              Sure they did, starting with the trade for Baron Davis, which was all about getting a 1st round pick. LAC's pick wound up netting Cleveland Kyrie Irving.

                              LINK: http://www.cleveland.com/pluto/blog/...gives_fan.html

                              From the moment LBJ left, Cleveland targeted the draft as their primary means of rebuilding and they've stuck to the 'slow and steady' method. Unlike BC, who kinda sorta used the draft, while jumping at quick-fix band-aid solutions, in at least a partial attempt to save his job.

                              The lucky bonus in that deal was that they wound up being able to amnesty Davis after the new CBA was signed. Talk about a win-win situation!
                              Last edited by CalgaryRapsFan; Thu Jul 11, 2013, 02:09 PM.

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                              • TheGloveinRapsUniform wrote: View Post
                                Thank you. What will his max be?
                                Lebron has come out and said he doesn't care about being a max. paid player..he has prooof to back his claim as well..
                                If Your Uncle Jack Helped You Off An Elephant, Would You Help Your Uncle Jack Off An Elephant?

                                Sometimes, I like to buy a book on CD and listen to it, while reading music.

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