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Rebuild or Re-tool? (thread merge in post #358)

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  • I just feel like LeBron has no real incentive to return to Cleveland. I think if he ever does, it might be to buy the team.

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    • CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
      Sure they did, starting with the trade for Baron Davis, which was all about getting a 1st round pick. LAC's pick wound up netting Cleveland Kyrie Irving.

      LINK: http://www.cleveland.com/pluto/blog/...gives_fan.html

      From the moment LBJ left, Cleveland targeted the draft as their primary means of rebuilding and they've stuck to the 'slow and steady' method. Unlike BC, who kinda sorta used the draft, while jumping at quick-fix band-aid solutions, in at least a partial attempt to save his job.

      The lucky bonus in that deal was that they wound up being able to amnesty Davis after the new CBA was signed. Talk about a win-win situation!
      I'm not trying to defend BC, but that's a distorted picture. After Bosh left (same time as LBJ), they drafted Davis (having drafted DD the previous year), unloaded Hedon't, made no desperate trades/FA signings for next couple of years while drafting JV, then Ross. Only last summer did he try and ramp up outside the draft. The Nash attempt was silly, but the Lowry trade a good one. In getting Rudy, he preceded the Cavs attempts to make a leap by a few months. Yeah he jumped into the fray a little sooner, but did the same as Cleveland for a couple of years.

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      • ebrian wrote: View Post
        Around #200 or so in this thread we were talking about Cleveland being in a better position than Toronto. They had done a proper rebuild by acquiring draft picks, tons of young players, and all the while maintaining strong cap flexibility.

        Many people thought eww eww Cleveland is just as bad as we are and could be years away from being competitive.

        Well, fast forward just 2 months later and we're witnessing the fruits of that flexibility. Earl Clark, Jarrett Jack, and now Andrew Bynum, to say nothing of 4 players in the draft. I'm not going to pass judgment on whether or not I agree with the moves specifically (personally not a huge fan of any of those players) but look what they've been able to do in the past few weeks makes me wish Toronto will get there one day as well, in terms of the flexibility.

        I think Masai is working towards it but there's just too much bloat leftover from Colangelo's reign of terror. Hopefully, we'll get there soon.
        To me that roster looks like a shit cake. Honestly Chris Grant has no idea what he's doing. Cleveland's roster is ok in terms of talent but none of the pieces fit lol

        Its just a mish mash of random ass players that had good seasons (except for Bynum of course) in the systems they played in. They have 3 ball dominant guards now, no legit Sf, and 2 injury prone bigmen. The only bright side is Kyrie and Tristan Thompson, possibly Bennett as well (i seriously don't know where he fits into the equation).

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        • NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post
          To me that roster looks like a shit cake. Honestly Chris Grant has no idea what he's doing. Cleveland's roster is ok in terms of talent but none of the pieces fit lol

          Its just a mish mash of random ass players that had good seasons (except for Bynum of course) in the systems they played in. They have 3 ball dominant guards now, no legit Sf, and 2 injury prone bigmen. The only bright side is Kyrie and Tristan Thompson, possibly Bennett as well (i seriously don't know where he fits into the equation).
          There is a backlog at PF.

          It will be interesting to see how he fixes it.

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          • CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
            I suppose it depends whether or not Cleveland ownership is willing to go into the tax. If LBJ comes back, I think you worry about all those details later and don't give a second thought to throwing your rebuild out the window... it's LBJ!

            The only players with guaranteed contracts for the 2014-15 season are:
            - Jack ($6.1M)
            - rookies who haven't signed yet (Bennett, Karasev)

            Every other player on Cleveland's roster is either a non-guaranteed contract (Varejao, Clark & Gee), team option (Irving, Bynum, Thompsom, Waiters & Zeller) or qualifying offer (Jones).

            Irving & Thompson have qualifying offers for the 2015-16 season. Waiters & Zeller have qualifying offers for the 2016-17 season. Needless to say, they have loads of flexibility and ample time to cash in their young assets if need be.
            Absolutely. Again, I'm not advocating this is great team by any means, or even good, but the flexibility is an absolute dream, and they've got a boatload of still very movable assets which means if things don't work out they still can't still wheel and deal.

            It's a gorgeous situation. That Bynum contract was the icing on the cake for me, what a beautiful contract with almost no risk involved.. only $6M guaranteed out of $24M! If he stays healthy (a huge if), he's going to be a 20/10/2 guy, and if not, see ya later! It's almost like Grant took a page out of the NFL rulebook with that contract with so little of it guaranteed.
            your pal,
            ebrian

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            • Matt52 wrote: View Post
              There is a backlog at PF.

              It will be interesting to see how he fixes it.
              I think it's more about watching it play out than needing to fix it. When you're cash-strapped with millions of dollars spent in one position, then sure, something needs to be done to fix it. Back in the day when we had Ed Davis, Reggie Evans, Bargnani and Amir Johnson playing the same position -- that situation needed to fixed because we had about $21M devoted to 4 players playing the same position, and not one of them was a legitimate starter.

              I'm not sure how much Earl Clark got, but I get the sense that between him, Bennett and Thompson they're looking at just over half of the $21M barrel that we were staring into.
              your pal,
              ebrian

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              • ebrian wrote: View Post
                Absolutely. Again, I'm not advocating this is great team by any means, or even good, but the flexibility is an absolute dream, and they've got a boatload of still very movable assets which means if things don't work out they still can't still wheel and deal.

                It's a gorgeous situation. That Bynum contract was the icing on the cake for me, what a beautiful contract with almost no risk involved.. only $6M guaranteed out of $24M! If he stays healthy (a huge if), he's going to be a 20/10/2 guy, and if not, see ya later! It's almost like Grant took a page out of the NFL rulebook with that contract with so little of it guaranteed.
                And they have about $5M in cap room right now!

                Watch out for MWP in Cleveland.

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                • Tanker PORN:

                  http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/nba...art/index.html

                  Warning: might NSFW for the hardcore tankers among us..... jk

                  A tease.......

                  It's a thought that has passed through the minds of several NBA executives already, most likely ones from teams destined to have lousy seasons. Phoenix, Orlando, Charlotte, Boston, Philadelphia and Utah are all rebuilding and figure to be jockeying for prime lottery position with as many ping pong balls as they can get. Tanking is an annual rite of passage for NBA bottom-feeders but next season, said an Eastern Conference executive, "it will happen earlier than most."

                  Why? Because the 2014 draft is good. Really good. As ho-hum as most executives were about the '13 draft, they are that positively giddy about the '14 one. Ask execs about prospective franchise players in last month's draft and they will struggle to come up with one. Ask them about next year's and they will rattle off a list of five or six before taking a breath.

                  "This draft reminds me of the 2003 draft," said a Western Conference GM, referring to the class headlined by LeBron James, Carmelo Anthony, Chris Bosh and Dwyane Wade. "There is a cluster of cornerstone, All-Star level players at the top. These are guys that if they were in this year's draft, they all would have gone at the top."

                  Read More: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/nba...#ixzz2Ys6lvK44

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                  • Matt52 wrote: View Post
                    Tanker PORN:

                    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/nba...art/index.html

                    Warning: might NSFW for the hardcore tankers among us..... jk

                    A tease.......
                    I don't want to tank but I was watching Andrew Wiggins highlights this morning ..... that was a bad idea....

                    I think he is the lightning in a bottle type player

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                    • If the likes of Charlotte and Cleveland hasn't taught us anything, trying to get to #1 every year is a risky proposition. I understand that the 2014 draft class is perhaps 8-deep. I get that. However, Colangelo made sure that we DON'T have flexibility. If Rudy wasn't acquired last year and Demar was traded to move into the 2013 draft w/ expiring contracts, we can sure consider winning 23 games or less.

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                      • Balls of Steel wrote: View Post
                        If the likes of Charlotte and Cleveland hasn't taught us anything, trying to get to #1 every year is a risky proposition. I understand that the 2014 draft class is perhaps 8-deep. I get that. However, Colangelo made sure that we DON'T have flexibility. If Rudy wasn't acquired last year and Demar was traded to move into the 2013 draft w/ expiring contracts, we can sure consider winning 23 games or less.
                        I disagree some what. I think both Cleveland and Charlotte have done exactly what any smart team in their position should be doing. Tanking while playing their young players heavy minutes. Only difference between them and us are we have a few more wins than them and we have a lot less cap space. Mean while they continue to stock pile young assets and put themselves in good position to capitalize in free agency and with trades. At the end of the day neither they nor us are contenders but they have a lot more options and a lot more to look forward to. If there is any negative that I can take away from Cleveland and Charlotte, its that they aren't capitalizing in the lottery as they should be, but that has more to do with a crappy scouting team than their tanking philosophy.

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                        • Pretty much all the Raptors have is young players. Proponents of tanking are saying they ditch that talent for nothing if need be. That's a bad idea.

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                          • Apollo wrote: View Post
                            Pretty much all the Raptors have is young players. Proponents of tanking are saying they ditch that talent for nothing if need be. That's a bad idea.
                            Most definitely not.

                            You keep Ross and JV and see what the rest fetches.

                            If Bargnani can yield 3 draft picks and one useful player then surely DD/Gay/Lowry can return something of value.

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                            • Apollo wrote: View Post
                              Pretty much all the Raptors have is young players. Proponents of tanking are saying they ditch that talent for nothing if need be. That's a bad idea.
                              I don't think I've read a single poster who wants to give away our talent.

                              Comment


                              • Fully wrote: View Post
                                I don't think I've read a single poster who wants to give away our talent.
                                I can't speak to all of it, but I recall people wanting to give away Rudy for 2 expiring scrubs.

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