Rebuild or Re-tool? (thread merge in post #358)

[Michel G]

Coach Casey isn't the only person who wants Gay to drop 25pts. each night, we all do, but what he is asking Gay to do is become an elite, franchise player by putting up those numbers. I really like Gay, and I had hoped when he was traded to Toronto he would have grabbed the opportunity a la James Harden and take that next step, but he didn't. I still like the trade for Toronto, but I don't know what would have changed between last season and this that makes Casey think that Gay can/will take that next step towards being a franchise player.

Sad part is that I and many people out there think he is capable of it because he has all the tools to do it, but the focus and motor aren't there to do it every night imo.

He can still do that. He's never truly been the focal point of a team. Even though he took the most shots in Memphis, we all know that wasn't his team. Rudy might surprise some people next year. Of course, this will all depend on what direction management decides to take.

[Rapstor4Life]

Rudy has an opportunity here to take a big leap and get the respect he deserves being the leader of this team in his mind hes a superstar/all star player that isnt recognized time to play with a chip on his shoulder and bring it every night. It is true about him kind of scoffing lower level players though if it isnt Lebron Melo or Durant he doesnt go Hard and just plays in "cruise control mode" but that could be because his bask issues this season he played stiff but the Wizards and Cavs games that we lost was silly because they dont have anyone that can bother Rudy...He should dominate.

IF RUDY WANTS TO BE AN ALL STAR LIKE HE THINKS HE IS, THEN HE HAS TO PLAY HARD EVERY NIGHT like Lebron James says "DON'T PLAY TO THE LEVEL YOUR COMPETITION. IF YOU AS A PLAYER SET THE BAR TOO LOW YOU WILL ONLY TRIP OVER IT, PLAY HARD EVERY NIGHT"

[mcHAPPY]

Coach Casey isn't the only person who wants Gay to drop 25pts. each night, we all do, but what he is asking Gay to do is become an elite, franchise player by putting up those numbers. I really like Gay, and I had hoped when he was traded to Toronto he would have grabbed the opportunity a la James Harden and take that next step, but he didn't. I still like the trade for Toronto, but I don't know what would have changed between last season and this that makes Casey think that Gay can/will take that next step towards being a franchise player.

Sad part is that I and many people out there think he is capable of it because he has all the tools to do it, but the focus and motor aren't there to do it every night imo.

The only way I can see it happening is if the offense becomes more system based with more post up opportunities... oh and Rudy buys in.

More ball movement, cuts, open looks versus ISO.

[Mediumcore]

http://raptorfan.ca/2013/06/11/break...h-coach-casey/

Coach Casey isn't the only person who wants Gay to drop 25pts. each night, we all do, but what he is asking Gay to do is become an elite, franchise player by putting up those numbers. I really like Gay, and I had hoped when he was traded to Toronto he would have grabbed the opportunity a la James Harden and take that next step, but he didn't. I still like the trade for Toronto, but I don't know what would have changed between last season and this that makes Casey think that Gay can/will take that next step towards being a franchise player.

Sad part is that I and many people out there think he is capable of it because he has all the tools to do it, but the focus and motor aren't there to do it every night imo.

[mcHAPPY]

If the Raps rebuild on the fly as it appears to be (or not to be) depending on who you listen to, how about this:

Golden State: Bargnani, Marion
Detroit: DeRozan, Kleiza, #13
Dallas: cap space
Toronto: Jefferson, Biedrins, Stuckey, #8

When sending out over $19.6M, teams can take back 125% + 100k.

Bargnani (11.28), DeRozan (9.5), and Kleiza (4.6) = $25.38M x 125% + 100k = $31.28M

Jefferson ($11), Biedrins ($9), and Stuckey ($8.5) = $28.5M


So Golden State turns $21M of deadweight in to something useful;
Dallas gains cap space for their free agent binge;
Detroit gets DeRozan for moving down 5 spots in the draft for a PG they don't want, an expiring contract, and still maintains enough cap space to be a free agent player;
Toronto gets #8, a back up PG, sheds Bargnani, and acquires nearly $30M in expiring contracts or creates a possible $20M cap space for next summer.


I'd do it.

By the way, this could also be done if the Raptors amnestied Kleiza, declined JL3, luxury tax goes to $71.6m as reported, and Golden State or Detroit took Gray (but would have to be done after July 1st). Going this route would also allow Toronto to do sign and trades. For example, if Toronto secured #8, would Utah have interest in moving up to #8 in a sign and trade for Millsap? Say Millsap and #14 for an expiring (Stuckey/Biedrins/Jefferson) and #8?


*EDIT* Shit. Sorry, wrong. Raps would be off by $600K and I forgot about the rookie cap hold on the #8 pick.

[mcHAPPY]

Rudy could get half way there by taking better shots and moving back up to his 2010-2011 shooting % and get the rest of the way there by getting to the line a couple more times a game. Would be nice if he gave up a few of those long twos for dunk attempts.

or swapped them for corner 3s.

[Puffer]

.....If he actually wants Gay to be 25 point scorer. Those shots are going to come for some where. ...

Rudy could get half way there by taking better shots and moving back up to his 2010-2011 shooting % and get the rest of the way there by getting to the line a couple more times a game. Would be nice if he gave up a few of those long twos for dunk attempts.

[mcHAPPY]

If the Raps rebuild on the fly as it appears to be (or not to be) depending on who you listen to, how about this:

Golden State: Bargnani, Marion
Detroit: DeRozan, Kleiza, #13
Dallas: cap space
Toronto: Jefferson, Biedrins, Stuckey, #8

When sending out over $19.6M, teams can take back 125% + 100k.

Bargnani (11.28), DeRozan (9.5), and Kleiza (4.6) = $25.38M x 125% + 100k = $31.28M

Jefferson ($11), Biedrins ($9), and Stuckey ($8.5) = $28.5M


So Golden State turns $21M of deadweight in to something useful;
Dallas gains cap space for their free agent binge;
Detroit gets DeRozan for moving down 5 spots in the draft for a PG they don't want, an expiring contract, and still maintains enough cap space to be a free agent player;
Toronto gets #8, a back up PG, sheds Bargnani, and acquires nearly $30M in expiring contracts or creates a possible $20M cap space for next summer.


I'd do it.

[Chr1s1anL]

http://raptorfan.ca/2013/06/11/break...h-coach-casey/

So doesn't look like Rudy and Lowry are going anywhere soon.

Also does make it seem like DD is on his way out. If he actually wants Gay to be 25 point scorer. Those shots are going to come for some where. For Rudy to be that effective his going to need space on the court. Meaning some legit court spacing. Thier need a shooter at the 2 spot. He really made it seem like this offense was going to run through Lowry and Gay with JV being the third option.

You could also writte off them going after a big if the get in draft. Looks thier set on getting a veteran big to either start or spell JV/AJ. If Casey and Ujiri actually are on the same page doesn't seem like thier thinking rebuilt.

[jimmie]

I give him a bit of pass considering the injury/surgery etc...he came off last season. It just keeps making me wonder though...and perhaps it should be the focal point of this rebuild/retool discussion....

NOW or Trade Deadline?

He's never been in 'great' shape in his career, I don't think, which might be a result of or a reason for his injuries over the years. But if there's pressure on him now to get in great shape, that's only good for Toronto.

As for the question, you trade him whenever the return is the best. If they are rebuilding -- and I believe they probably are leaning that way; if nothing else, it provides Ujiri with limitless options in terms of getting rid of Bargnani -- then he's a very valuable asset this year. I don't think there's any imperative to choose now vs. later. He may up his value by his play, but I think he's a fairly known commodity around the league at this point, and it's really his contract numbers that make him a great asset, anyway, moreso than his talent.

[thead]

One would expect nothing less than Lowry to get his ass in shape this summer - probably the best of his life. Sure he already signed a $24M contract but the next 12 months will decide if he gets another contract at $6+M per year or if he becomes a MLE or less type of player.

I give him a bit of pass considering the injury/surgery etc...he came off last season. It just keeps making me wonder though...and perhaps it should be the focal point of this rebuild/retool discussion....


NOW or Trade Deadline?

[mcHAPPY]

One would expect nothing less than Lowry to get his ass in shape this summer - probably the best of his life. Sure he already signed a $24M contract but the next 12 months will decide if he gets another contract at $6+M per year or if he becomes a MLE or less type of player.

[thead]

http://raptorfan.ca/2013/06/11/break...h-coach-casey/

Q: Klow – I loved the guy in Houston, loved the acquisition when it happened, did well in the begging on the year, then tailed off. What happened? and is He STILL the GUY for this team?



DC …(para phrasing) Lowry has the skill set to make him a great player. Kyle (and he’ll the first to tell you this) was in the worst shape of his career coming into this season. He missed training camp bc of the abdominal injury and even when he came back he wasn’t 100%. Once he went down, Jose came in and we reeled off 5-6 wins in a row. That added to the psyche of Kyle. First injury now his role being compromised. When he returned, he still wasn’t 100% and got fatigued often. There were times when you saw guys blow by him, not because he couldn’t stop them but bc he was out of shape.



He’s butt heads with alot of coaches in the past… Iavarroni, Mchale etc. Kyle is a competitor and everyone knows that. Him and I have spoke alot and he knows that I NEED him to be at his best at all times. This is a big year for him. I’ve told him that this is his year and his shot. He’s got to be in the best shape of his career and be ready to take this team to the next level. It’s there for him to take. I’ve been texting Kyle alot, and he’s already lost 15 lbs. It’s great news and we are looking for him to be the guy – not just THAT GUY in a contract year. I’ve told KYLE, I’ve been spoiled with PG’s in the past, I had PAYTON and JKIDD in the past.

Q: Rudy Gay, his fit, what he needs to do this year.



DC … Rudy is a great talent and has the respect of the league and officials. When he came in, he gave us that BOOST OF CONFIDENCE that we needed. He’s a STAR. He knows the game and knows how to play it. Rudy is a guy who has a ton of confidence on the offensive end. When he gets the ball, and gets in the motion (coach mimicking cross overs), he knows he can score on the opposition. He gets ‘geeked’ up for the matchups vs Lebron, Carmelo etc. What we NEED from Rudy is to do that EVERY NIGHT, against even the 2nd or 3rd tier players whomever they might be. Rudy and I are very close and we talk often. He offers alot of insight on strategy and offers suggestions. I’ve told him, that he needs to TAKE THIS TEAM and MAKE IT HIS. We have talent on this team but no disrespect to our guys, RUDY IS OUR GUY. I’ve told him that we need him to be a different guy than he was in Memphis. There, he could have off nights or the luxury of having Zach and Marc with him to spread the load. HERE, we NEED him to drop 25 points a night and a grab few rebounds. He’s up for it,wants it and wants to be an ALL STAR.

[Puffer]

Can I see a source about Lowry losing 15 pounds and him saying he wants Gay to average 25 points?

http://raptorfan.ca/2013/06/11/break...h-coach-casey/

[Chr1s1anL]

So much of what needs to change depends on how these guys come back. I might only tinker this summer and save the heavy moves for the tread dead line.

Lowry according to Casey is already down 15 pounds and has promised to come back in the best shape of his life.

DeMar was shooting the three ball very effeciently towards the end of the season. Does that keep up?

Rudy had eye surgery, and might finally be able to fill up the bucket this season. Casey has said he expects 25pts and night and that the offense will be re-tooled around him.

Landry will have finally had enough time to get that damn elbow right. Let's see if he is any closer to that rookie 3pt mark of 40%

Terrence Ross had a patchy rookie season. I'd like to see where he is at in the first few months.

Aside from that...Summer time moves that need to be addressed are still the usual. Backup PG, Kleiza, Bargnani, starting or backup 4.

Can I see a source about Lowry losing 15 pounds and him saying he wants Gay to average 25 points?