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Chisholm: Ujiri the anti-Colangelo?

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  • #61
    Ujiri has a very sold track record. The only move I'm not big on at all is the resigning of Javale for like more than $10 mil a year. I guess it's good for comedy sake to have the guy on your team but still...
    Eh follow my TWITTER!

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    • #62
      Employee wrote: View Post
      Ujiri has a very sold track record. The only move I'm not big on at all is the resigning of Javale for like more than $10 mil a year. I guess it's good for comedy sake to have the guy on your team but still...
      It depends on what his marketvalue was. I must say that I have no idea. If it's anywhere close to his marketvalue, they had to sign him or see an asset walk. McGee has, in small instances, proven he can be a real gamechanger. He's still a bit of a knucklehead, but nothing like he was in Washington. If I had to chose between 10 mil. for DeRozan or McGee it would be an easy choice.

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      • #63
        Really eh? Personally I'd take DeRozan. They're paying Javale over $10 a year to come off the bench, play 18 mins a game and avg 9 pts and 5 rbs. I guess you could argue he could get better but with DeRozan you know he's at least going to work on improving.
        Eh follow my TWITTER!

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        • #64
          slaw wrote: View Post
          He has led 5, count'em 5, 50+ win teams to first round exits, including super-talented Seattle teams in the 90s (even a 60-win team!). His playoff history is atrocious and there is a pattern of his teams underperforming.
          Can't disagree with you. He has been questionable in the play offs.
          Attitude Is A Choice.

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          • #65
            vino wrote: View Post
            26th selection is a 26th selection, regardless how deep the draft class PROMISES to be... and anybody can walk any time - this is not a legit argument. Besides, why walk from a situation like this?! I guess that's the point of having a solid organization (and a GM) - you simply do not walk away from it; on the contrary, you take less money to stay there (ala Duncan, Nowitzki?)
            Hey, I am a Ujiri supporter...but he did make good/great picks with the 21 & 22 selections in lesser drafts so its not out of the realm he could get a nice player @ 26th. He hasnt shown to be a BC yet. btw, I wasnt picking the Iguodala possibility out of my ear:

            http://tracking.si.com/2013/05/03/nu...-out-contract/

            If this happens and it was on BC's watch he'd be pilloried. Just saying that that last transaction might be a bit iffy even in retrospect with Harrington being a good sub for the injured Gallinari. But we cant have everything I understand.

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            • #66
              slaw wrote: View Post
              I'm not as tough on Karl as many in the analytics community are (the guy has been coaching for 30 years and has won a tonne of games, so he is doing something right) but I am in the club who believes Karl is a vastly overrated head coach. He has led 5, count'em 5, 50+ win teams to first round exits, including super-talented Seattle teams in the 90s (even a 60-win team!). His playoff history is atrocious and there is a pattern of his teams underperforming.
              yep. further proof run and gun teams don't work in the playoffs.
              @sweatpantsjer

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              • #67

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                • #68
                  slaw wrote: View Post
                  I'm not as tough on Karl as many in the analytics community are (the guy has been coaching for 30 years and has won a tonne of games, so he is doing something right) but I am in the club who believes Karl is a vastly overrated head coach. He has led 5, count'em 5, 50+ win teams to first round exits, including super-talented Seattle teams in the 90s (even a 60-win team!). His playoff history is atrocious and there is a pattern of his teams underperforming.
                  Just to put a little perspective to this:

                  Karl record in the playoffs - .432 win%

                  Just out of a selection of well known coaches with some history:

                  D'Antoni - .441 Jackson - .688 Pops - .662 Doc - .529 Jerry Sloan - .485 Byron Scott - .579 SVG - .552 JVG - .500

                  Not sure there is a 'fair' way to judge coaches (and sure as heck don't feel like calculating them all), so make of it what one will.

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                  • #69
                    Nilanka wrote: View Post


                    GOOD COME ON UJIRI! good he isnt Steve Nashing the city.

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                    • #70
                      Nilanka wrote: View Post

                      Denver is hoping the money plus the guilt trip adds up to enough I guess.

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                      • #71
                        Hopefully at the end of the day he does what is right for him - whether that means staying in Denver or coming to Toronto. After all he is the one who has to live with the decision.

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                        • #72
                          Every time I hear George Karl and "good coach" together, I think of this excerpt from a story on Billups

                          When he arrives, Chauncey isn't sure what to make of the Nuggets. On paper, he adores their talent. He has worked out with the unpredictable Smith in the past, and has told people Smith can be an All-Star. But his worry is tempo, decision-making. He hates disorganized. "The way they played before I got here was erratic," Chauncey says. "I call it dysfunctional. No discipline. I need some stability. I can't play like that. This game means too much to me."

                          Karl calls a meeting to introduce Chauncey, who tells his new teammates, "Look, I'm here to win. I ain't here to do a lot of talking. I'll walk the walk, and hopefully y'all be the same way, and we'll be on the same page."

                          Next, they go over all of the team's plays. Chauncey nods, but, inside, he has a sick feeling. For instance, the Nuggets don't have an underneath-the-basket out-of-bounds play. This isn't high school. He can't throw the ball off someone's back and dunk it. What's going on here?
                          I don't think Karl is a bad coach...I think he's a fairly good player's coach. He makes a system where guys get to play in their comfort zone. But he isn't necessarily good at making an organized system, or, apparently, just an out-of-bounds play. Even now, the Nuggets play pretty helter-skelter. The more up-and-down and disorganized a game is, the more it plays to their style.

                          Source:
                          http://espn.go.com/espn/eticket/stor...090511/billups
                          A really cool story on Billups from a few years ago.

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                          • #73
                            There's a Ujiri twitter account that tweeted he chose Toronto, but it only has 50 followers, so the twitterverse is on fire trying to figure out the account's veracity, lol.


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                            • #74

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                              • #75
                                Bouncepass wrote: View Post
                                One of the main differences between the two is the return on the trade of their star player. In this, Chisholm acknowledges but downplays the differences. Not only did Bosh continue to play coy with Raptors' fans and management about his intentions, he only had one target destination - Miami. If Colangelo had the flexibility to look at more than one destination for trading Bosh, he too could have ratcheted up the value of the trade. Instead, Bosh left him with no alternative but to get whatever he could. Since other teams would have had little interest in trading for Bosh only to lose him to Miami, there was no trade value. This was all orchestrated by Bosh and the Heat. If Colangelo had been at liberty to get market value for Bosh, the Raptors franchise would be in a much better position (as would the Cavs, who got very little for trading this generation's best player). In contrast, Ujiri was able to look at various trade options for Carmelo, and teams knew that they would have to pay in the form of salary relief, draft picks and assets to acquire him. He did a good job on the trade, but comparing his situation to Colangelo's is apples to oranges.
                                Bouncepass pretty much nails the Bosh / Carmelo trade scenarios - Apples & Oranges (as others have said).

                                Not to rain on the Ujiji parade, but has anyone taken into account the one factor that plays in Denver's favour - Altitude. During the 2012-13 season, the Nuggets were 38-3 at home (and 13-28 on the road) - better then Miami's home record of 37-4 (a function of that consecutive win record they were pursuing).

                                In the previous 4 seasons (which excludes the strike shortened season), Denver averaged 7.8 losses at home per season. Their record during these years - including the short season - was:
                                • 2012-13 -- 3rd
                                • 2011-12 -- 6th (66 games. Messed up schedule. The ONLY time their Road record was +.500 [post 2006-07])
                                • 2010-11 -- 5th
                                • 2009-10 -- 4th
                                • 2008-09 -- 3rd



                                Even in 2007-08 season, when the Nuggets just made the play-offs (8th place), their home record was 33-8.

                                All that being said, I still would like Ujiji to lead the charge for the Raptors. I also hope Lieweke keeps his nose out of that job - as I don't believe his qualifications warrant any intrusions. Fact is, I kind of think he's redundant in Toronto land. MLSE will have no trouble making boat loads of money ... now, and in the future - which from all that I've read, is what Tim's skill brought him fame. Personally, I didn't like the way he beat down the "past" in his interviews. Why retain a guy (BC), then belittle him in front of the Press. Doesn't strike me as someone I'd want to work for.

                                Never-the-less, I hope I'm wrong on the Lieweke perspective, and that Ujiji prospers - should he come.

                                .
                                Last edited by RapthoseLeafs; Tue May 28, 2013, 03:55 PM.

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