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  • ezz_bee
    replied
    I Miami's case it may also be about not be to strenuous for Wade, and to a lesser extent lebron and bosh

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  • JawsGT
    replied
    hotfuzz wrote: View Post
    Don't forget that some teams have a notorious habit of playing to the level of competition in the regular season. Miami is very guilty of this, but that doesn't mean that the teams that barely lost to Miami are close to them.
    Agreed, especially in Miami's case. What I got from many Heat games is that they don't turn it on, or play to their highest potential until the fourth quarter. They seem to be content taking it easy through 3 quarters depending on who they were playing of course, and then just turn up the D in the 4th and take over the game. I'm hypothesizing that this was a deliberate approach given that Miami has alot of confidence in their abilty to win close games or to blow them wide open late.

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  • ezz_bee
    replied
    feet85 wrote: View Post
    -ezz_bee Lost 12 out of 29 series, including 8 sweeps
    Tied 12 out of 29 series
    Won 5 out of 29 series, including 4 sweeps

    You Need To understand that Rudy Gay wasn't there for the majority of these games and he makes a huge difference. I honestly think that we could be a top 6 seed in the East next season with the addition of a proper pg rotation (Deven Harris and Ben Uzoh)
    Now, I do think that I should point out that I was in favour of the gay trade, he provides more TALENT than what we had before, I still think that talent + mental discipline is what wins championships (but I'm well documented on my philosophy elsewhere)... but let's take a look at how the raps did with Gay...

    Atlanta 1 1
    Boston 1 2
    Brooklyn 1 0
    Charlotte 1 1
    Chicago 2 0
    Cleveland 1 1
    Denver 1 0
    Detroit 1 1
    Golden State 0 1
    Indiana 1 1
    L.A. Clippers 1 0
    L.A. Lakers 0 1
    Memphis 0 1
    Miami 0 2
    Milwaukee 0 2
    Minnesota 1 0
    New Orleans 1 0
    New York 2 2
    Phoenix 1 0
    Washington 2 2

    The over record is better with Gay, as we went 18 & 18, but again I would say that there are as many causes for concern as there are reasons to celebrate.

    Even with Gay we still split games with Washington, Cleveland, Charlotte and Detroit AND couldn't beat the bucks in TWO (2) critical games.

    As to the bold, I do think we have a shot a the 6th seed next year (athough, I think i'm probably a little more skeptical about that outcome than you) however, the fact that we still need some player development plus minor roster tweaks to get to sixth, only helps to highlight my argument that we are a LONG way from the Pacers, who were considered the top two team in the conference almost all season. Even without their most TALANTED player.

    Again, looking at the Pacers specifically, without gay we lost by two(2) and won by (2), with him we won by (2), and lost by twelve(12), so in that specific case you can argue that we a better match up with pacers before the Gay trade.

    Now i'll be the first to admit that comparing two teams, using only 4 games, 2 with gay and 2 without gay, just isn't that useful in providing enough info to produce meaningful conclusions, what it does help to do though is reinforce that the hypothesis in the OP, that based on the 4 regular season games between the Raps and Pacers, we can conclude that the raps are similar to the Pacers and aren't far from matching their success, is EQUALLY MEANINGLESS.

    hotfuzz wrote: View Post
    Don't forget that some teams have a notorious habit of playing to the level of competition in the regular season. Miami is very guilty of this, but that doesn't mean that the teams that barely lost to Miami are close to them.
    100% - and I think that the wins against teams like Indy, New York, and Chicago have to be off set by the losses to Charlotte, Detroit, Washington, and Cleveland, either because Toronto is more talented, but played down to their level, or is in actuality only as talented as those teams. Regardless of the cause (which is debatable) the outcome is the same (and NOT debatable).


    TRex wrote: View Post
    Raptors lost a lot of games last season because of poor execution late in the game. And coaching IMO has a lot to do with that.
    I'm not ready to throw Casey under the bus just yet, and would be happy to see him coach next season. That said, I do think that Frank Vogel is doing an incredible job coaching, and would definitely that when talking about Vogel and Casey, it has to be more of a contrast, than a compare.

    So again, sorry to rain on anyone's parade, but the raps, whether you look at them pre gay post gay, are a tier or 3 below the pacers.
    Last edited by ezz_bee; Fri May 31, 2013, 08:35 AM.

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  • The Great One
    replied
    Raptors lost a lot of games last season because of poor execution late in the game. And coaching IMO has a lot to do with that.

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  • hotfuzz
    replied
    Don't forget that some teams have a notorious habit of playing to the level of competition in the regular season. Miami is very guilty of this, but that doesn't mean that the teams that barely lost to Miami are close to them.

    Leave a comment:


  • Chr1s1anL
    replied
    blackjitsu wrote: View Post
    Looks back at the Raptors bench...
    ...still not seeing it...
    Raptors had a better bench than Pacers

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  • blackjitsu
    replied
    Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
    Pacers have terrible bench
    Looks back at the Raptors bench...
    ...still not seeing it...

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  • Chr1s1anL
    replied
    blackjitsu wrote: View Post
    Looks at the Raptors bench...Looks at the Pacers bench...

    ...No, not seeing it...
    Pacers have terrible bench

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  • blackjitsu
    replied
    Looks at the Raptors bench...Looks at the Pacers bench...

    ...No, not seeing it...

    Leave a comment:


  • feet85
    replied
    -ezz_bee Lost 12 out of 29 series, including 8 sweeps
    Tied 12 out of 29 series
    Won 5 out of 29 series, including 4 sweeps

    You Need To understand that Rudy Gay wasn't there for the majority of these games and he makes a huge difference. I honestly think that we could be a top 6 seed in the East next season with the addition of a proper pg rotation (Deven Harris and Ben Uzoh)

    Leave a comment:


  • isaacthompson
    replied
    tenforthewin wrote: View Post
    The Pacers have David West and we have Amir Johnson, big difference. To improve this team, we need to acquire players like Millsap, Al Jeff, or Lamarcus Aldridge. Personally, I see Millsap as attainable by giving them DD + fillers and we flip Bargnani for a backup SG or SF + PG

    Lowry/Backup PG VS Hill
    Fields/Ross Stephenson
    Gay/Backup SF George
    Millsap/Amir/Acy West
    Val/Gray Hibbert

    Lowry = Hill
    Fields < Stephenson
    Gay = George
    Millsap < West
    Val > Hibbert
    LOL.

    You can't be serious...

    Leave a comment:


  • JawsGT
    replied
    Soft Euro wrote: View Post
    I never get that Indiana comparison that comes up quite often lately. In my opinion they are built completely different than we. One small example: they would not like to play with a small point guard like Lowry; it's not a good fit for their style.
    I agree. Going through position by position one can warrant making a comparison, but when looking at how these teams play...not so much. Indiana's success stems from their defense first mentality, they are not the most talented offensive group but they do have solid options and they take advantage of that with there inside-outside halfcourt offense. The Raps are built to move and have seemingly put their defense behind their offense in terms of developmental priority for the team. Indiana, I think, attempts to force teams to take tough shots and then gobble up the boards. Raps are risk takers defensively, trying to force turnovers and get out on the break. The Pacers are certainly a harder working team defensively, and often, I think, the best defensive teams are those that exhibit the hardest work ethic on that end of the floor. It's not just about knowing where you have to be on the court as the opposing team goes through its offensive motions, but knowing what it takes to get there and then actually commiting to executing that effort each and every play. The Pacers do this, the Raps do not and this is disconcerting considering Casey is a defensive coach and we actually had decent defense the previous season.

    I'd like to see the Raps play more like the Pacers defensively, and if so, the comparison would make more sense. And here's to hoping JV continues to improve down low in order to facilitate an inside-outside offense. I'm still not on the upgrade the PF movement yet, but maybe if we move one of our starting wings (I guess that would be DD) I'd be more amenable to the idea.

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  • Nilanka
    replied
    I think the Indiana comparisons are even looser than that described above. It's basically boils down to, "look, they don't have a superstar player either, so we're totally like them"

    Totally.

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  • slaw
    replied
    Soft Euro wrote: View Post
    I never get that Indiana comparison that comes up quite often lately. In my opinion they are built completely different than we. One small example: they would not like to play with a small point guard like Lowry; it's not a good fit for their style.
    It's the Hibbert/George and Val/Gay comparison. Also, I believe BC mentioned Indy as the type of buidling plan or structure or organic growth (or whatever the catch-phrase of the month was to distract the rubes) he was sorta, kinda following.

    I also find that Raptor fans (like every other sports fan) mostly follow their own team. I don't think people realize how good Hibbert and West are as duo or how effective guys like George Hill and Paul George are cause they don't see them play more than a few times a year. Or that the Indy team is built around a defense-first philosophy whereas Toronto is built around the "glue a bunch of random stuff together in a big ball and hope it looks like art" philosophy.

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  • Soft Euro
    replied
    I never get that Indiana comparison that comes up quite often lately. In my opinion they are built completely different than we. One small example: they would not like to play with a small point guard like Lowry; it's not a good fit for their style.

    Leave a comment:

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