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  • #46
    Raptor_11 wrote: View Post
    People said the same about Lebron. Even if theres only a 25% chance he lives up to his potential, it is a risk that many people would like to take, because those type of players put your team into automatic contention almost every year
    Yeah or half way through the season, while we are busy tanking this year, and continuing a losing culture Wiggins can blow his knee completely out and become Grant Hill instead of Michael Jordan. I'm not even remotely interested in tanking for this guy. JV is a guy we can build around.
    For still frame photograph of me reading the DeRozan thread please refer to my avatar

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    • #47
      Honestly i'm through with all this tanking BS. We have a legit C so lets just put some quality pieces around him and win some fucking games. We have some good players around him already but there are definitely still some holes to fill

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      • #48
        glad I made an interesting thread as for Wiggins having a killer instinct, arguably Lebron doesnt have one either well at least until recently.

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        • #49
          TRex wrote: View Post
          Really?

          Raptors + LeBron = multiple championships.

          If competing for a championship year after year doesn't excite you then i want to know what excites you as a basketball fan? Constant rebuilding every year i guess?
          I would be Miami fan then as Im not attached to Toronto or Canada. Makes sense? It's not just about championships for me but about teams culture and building process as well.
          Official Pope of the Raptors sponsored by MLSE.

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          • #50
            thead wrote: View Post
            LeBron James was their Point Guard, Shooting Guard, Small Forward, Power Forward and sometimes Center.
            There's math, and everything else is debatable.

            @clericalbeats

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            • #51
              It's a tough spot to be in if your a GM. With a stacked draft class coming up, they can blow the team up and tank hard for 2-3 years, or make a few moves to put the team into legit playoff contention. With the emphasis on championships and a long process, it's hard to imagine they'll be worrying about making the playoffs next year. But that doesn't mean they're going to tank either

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              • #52
                thead wrote: View Post
                LeBron James was their Point Guard, Shooting Guard, Small Forward, Power Forward and sometimes Center.
                That's because Lebrons a freak lol Miami is the only team with the luxury of having a guy who can dominate at all positions.
                You come at the King, you best not miss.

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                • #53
                  Mr.Z wrote: View Post
                  That's because Lebrons a freak lol Miami is the only team with the luxury of having a guy who can dominate at all positions.
                  exactly my point. people want to tank because they think Wiggins will be the next LeBron James. I say fux that
                  For still frame photograph of me reading the DeRozan thread please refer to my avatar

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                  • #54
                    TRex wrote: View Post
                    Really?

                    Raptors + LeBron = multiple championships.
                    Just like Cleveland + Lebron = multiple championships?

                    I voted for JV NOT because I think he be the better player (although to be honest I've only seen highlights of Wiggin's play and they DID NOT look like Lebron's HS Highlights. That said, you can't scout from Highlights), but because JV is way less of a risk. I like JV, he's won multiple championships AND MVPS in international competition. Lithuania hasn't been this hyped about a forward since Sabonis. AND everything we are hoping to get from him we are seeing. All we need from him is to get a little better at THE THINGS HE ALREADY DOES.

                    Listen, if i'm another team and I get to pick between Wiggins and JV then Wiggins it is, but to get rid of JV in order to get Wiggins. I'm not sure I like it. There's a HUGE gulf between Carmelo and Lebron right now. I would trade JV for Lebron, but I WOULD NOT trade JV for Melo.

                    JV already has +offense and +defense. He's efficient AND effective at both ends of the floor. You don't have to run plays for him his MOTOR is off the charts. Is Wiggins defensive impact going to equal Vals? Is Wiggins going to be as efficient as Val on offense (even if adjusted for the difference between post and wing players)?

                    For me the argument for trading JV for an unproven Wiggins is similar to the argument that the Spurs should have traded Duncan for Lebron after the 2007 finals. Lebron had a ton of upside, but there were still questions about his ability to come through in the clutch. Is Lebron going to be a better player than Duncan over the next 10 years? Absolutely, but would the spurs be willing to trade him? Absolutely not.



                    TRex wrote: View Post
                    Homerism at its finest.
                    I can't wait for the day when the best player in the NBA is Canadian, and hopefully Wiggins will be the player that makes that day happen, but he HASN'T played a game in the NBA yet, nor has he played in the NCAA. JV has played TWO years of professional basketball and destroyed the USA (made up of NCAA players) in the U19 tourney the summer he was drafted. If you redo the 2011 he goes 2nd (okay I just realized the Kawhi Leonard, who is basically JV at the wing position, was drafted 15th, but based on his finals performance he might slide in above JV).

                    Yes Wiggins has a greater upside, but potential does not equal wins. And JV is going to be a player that has a lot of impact on wins. I'm pretty sure JV is going to give advanced metrics a RAGING ERECTION for the vast majority of his career.

                    Your inability to see the validity of the other side of the argument (whether you actually agree with it or not) can just as easily be termed homerism, since there is no way you can say with 100% certainty that in this and every other possible universe, Wiggins has the better NBA career, and that if he DOES have the better career, his career is SO much better that it warrants the risk involved in trading what is pretty well a sure fire above average player on both ends of the court at the Center position.
                    Last edited by ezz_bee; Mon Jun 24, 2013, 09:33 AM.
                    "They're going to have to rename the whole conference after us: Toronto Raptors 2014-2015 Northern Conference Champions" ~ ezzbee Dec. 2014

                    "I guess I got a little carried away there" ~ ezzbee Apr. 2015

                    "We only have one rule on this team. What is that rule? E.L.E. That's right's, E.L.E, and what does E.L.E. stand for? EVERYBODY LOVE EVERYBODY. Right there up on the wall, because this isn't just a basketball team, this is a lifestyle. ~ Jackie Moon

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                    • #55
                      Amen brother ezz_bee!

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                      • #56
                        ezz_bee wrote: View Post
                        Your inability to see the validity of the other side of the argument (whether you actually agree with it or not) can just as easily be termed homerism, since there is no way you can say with 100% certainty that in this and every other possible universe, Wiggins has the better NBA career, and that if he DOES have the better career, his career is SO much better that it warrants the risk involved in trading what is pretty well a sure fire above average player on both ends of the court at the Center position.
                        i can say with 100% certainty that there are 1000s of those universes where jv has the better nba career. that one universe where wiggins was born as a thalidomide baby his career wasn't very good.

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                        • #57
                          What if the Raptors became so good in the next three seasons that Wiggin's decided it would be worth his while to sign them? I think it's got as good of a chance of happening as nabbing the #1 next year.
                          You come at the King, you best not miss.

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                          • #58
                            Mr.Z wrote: View Post
                            What if the Raptors became so good in the next three seasons that Wiggin's decided it would be worth his while to sign them? I think it's got as good of a chance of happening as nabbing the #1 next year.
                            When his rookie contract expires, he will be an RFA. So even if Wiggins wanted to come to Toronto, and Toronto could sign him (ie, they had enough cap space) the team that drafted him could just match Toronto's offer.

                            If Toronto does not draft Wiggins, the Raptors will have to wait at least 8 years for him to move teams, assuming it was not a trade but a free agent signing.

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                            • #59
                              Mr.Z wrote: View Post
                              What if the Raptors became so good in the next three seasons that Wiggin's decided it would be worth his while to sign them? I think it's got as good of a chance of happening as nabbing the #1 next year.
                              In that situation he is a restricted Free Agent (will most likely require a minimum of 5 seasons from now. Draft next year + 4 years of rookie scale contract), so the team he is with will have first and last crack at him.

                              I'd put the odds of getting Wiggins in the draft next year > than sign him as RFA aways from another team. If the Raps can it will only be because Wiggins didn't live up to his billing.

                              Signing Wiggins as a Free agent has the most likely possibility of being 7 years from when he is drafted, although most likely 8 or 9.

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                              • #60
                                who needs wiggins when he have derozan

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