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Question for people against tanking

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  • #16
    Name one team that has won a championship through "tanking".

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    • #17
      p00ka wrote: View Post
      Name one team that has won a championship through "tanking".
      Its Free Agents and smart drafting that can be thanked for the last decade of championships!
      The Baltic Beast is unstoppable!

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      • #18
        p00ka wrote: View Post
        Name one team that has won a championship through "tanking".
        San Antonio: But I'm sure Robinson injured for a year does not meet the criteria of the quotation marks.

        Boston: Tanked to get Oden then after getting pick #5, traded to get their Big 3 core. Again, probably doesn't meet the criteria of the quotation marks.

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        • #19
          p00ka wrote: View Post
          Name one team that has won a championship through "tanking".
          The San Antonio Spurs tanked like mad for Tim Duncan. They knew the 1996 season was gone the moment David Robinson went down and rather than try to salvage it, they smartly over-rested their other injured players to give themselves the best chance at the lottery. It worked.

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          • #20
            Mr.Z wrote: View Post
            ...With a pick somewhere in the teens we could easily still come out with a great young player.
            And it's not worth tanking for a "great young player." Having said that, who would you be willing to give up for "...a great young player." Or rather, who would another team be willing to take in exchange for "...a great young player." given the desperation with which teams are seeking picks in 2014, you would have to gut the Raps.

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            • #21
              p00ka wrote: View Post
              Name one team that has won a championship through "tanking".
              Miami got Dwade in 03, translated into 06 championship.

              I'm not concerned about teams who won a championship through tanking, I'm more concerned about teams who are COMPETING for a championship. Our team isn't competing, Utah isn't competing, Atlanta isn't competing. Those two teams make the playoffs it seems every year (save Utah last season), but they are never competing.

              Teams who are/have competed by going for high draft picks in the past 6 years (whether cause they are tanking, or just suck ass) include OKC, Memphis, Boston, Clippers.

              It won't be good just to be stuck in limbo as a 5/6/7/8th seed in the East... Why punish ourselves like this? People who think we are just one piece away from competing need to get out of their illusion of how good we are. Cause we aren't good. Oh yeah just get another role player and we can compete next year? So you're suggesting that we can compete with Miami next year and beat them in a best of 7? How about Chicago/Brooklyn/Indiana and even New York?

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              • #22
                Matt52 wrote: View Post
                San Antonio: But I'm sure Robinson injured for a year does not meet the criteria of the quotation marks.

                Boston: Tanked to get Oden then after getting pick #5, traded to get their Big 3 core. Again, probably doesn't meet the criteria of the quotation marks.
                I searched it up myself before you guys brought up San antonio. They didnt tank at all.

                "Robinson missed the first month of the season due to a back injury. He returned in December, but played only six games before a broken foot sidelined him for the rest of the season. Elliott also missed more than half the season due to injury. Without Robinson and Elliott, the Spurs were a rudderless team. "

                Injury =/= Purposeful tanking (trading your stars for picks and expiring contracts)
                The Baltic Beast is unstoppable!

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                • #23
                  Matt52 wrote: View Post
                  thanks

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                  • #24
                    magoon wrote: View Post
                    The San Antonio Spurs tanked like mad for Tim Duncan. They knew the 1996 season was gone the moment David Robinson went down and rather than try to salvage it, they smartly over-rested their other injured players to give themselves the best chance at the lottery. It worked.
                    David Robinson out for the year due to injury is hardly any part of a tanking plan, but Boston and Vancouver tanked even better, and didn't win the lottery to get arguably the best PF of all time. How often do one of those come along? But that's the desired "plan"? Even if I give you that "tank" scenario, which is very arguable, that's 1 team in how many years of NBA basketball? Yet so many people think tanking is the best option for a team that doesn't have a David Robinson waiting in the wings to join the lottery lucky pick? The concept is that even if one accepts that example, the possibility of accomplishing the same thing through tanking is so huge, that it's stupidity to put your eggs in that basket. Catch the second lightening bolt in a bottle in 50+ years? Great plan.

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                    • #25
                      p00ka wrote: View Post
                      Name one team that has won a championship through "tanking".
                      Again the problem is Wigggins, because we've talked so much about trying to get him at #1, people only understand 1 thing when the word tanking is thrown around. get the #1 pick. Its get a better draft pick and get a chance at a better talent to find a Franchise player. Many franchise players didn't get go 1st. the greatest of all time went 3rd.

                      The Point is Every single Title Team drafted their franchise player except the 2000-2003 Lakers and 04 Pistons, the big 3. 80's Lakers, 80' bulls, Bad Boy Pistons, Bulls, Rockets, Spurs, Kobe Lakers, Celtics again (Pierce but thats debatable more of a group effort), Maverics.

                      We dont have the trade assets to net a Boston big 3, we're not attractive enough to sign a Shaquille O'Neil, or a Miami big 3. so we got to do like everyone else and draft our Franchise player and build around him.

                      Do we have him in JV ? than we need to build a team for him, this team was built before him. We dont have him in JV then we need to stay in the lottery and find him. Either way we have to gut the team to move forward.

                      You have to find that Franchise player than trade around him, we've been doing it backwards for years and have gotten nowhere.
                      Take for example last year 1 win is the difference, could have been Lowry Derozan barnes, Johnson, Val and still have Ed davis to grow or trade and maintain Cap flexibility.

                      FRANCHISE PLAYERS DONT GET TRADED, THEY GET DRAFTED, THAT'S WHY YOU CALL THEM FRANCHISE PLAYERS.
                      Last edited by Dino4life; Sat Jun 29, 2013, 06:42 PM.

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                      • #26
                        "FRANCHISE PLAYERS DONT GET TRADED, THEY GET DRAFTED, THAT'S WHY YOU CALL THEM FRANCHISE PLAYERS."

                        Thanks for the inaccurate cliche, but in over 50 years of the NBA, how many teams won through tanking?

                        That aside, I don't know what criteria you use for "franchise player" (can you tell me?), but for some examples:

                        Kobe- drafted 13th by one team, obtained through trade
                        Dwight- drafted 1st, won nothing in 8 years, traded
                        Lebron- drafted 1st, won nothing in 7 years, then left drafting team through free agency
                        Pau Gasol, drafted 3rd, won nothing in 6 years, traded
                        KG- drafted 5th, won nothing in 12 years, traded
                        Dirk- drafted 9th, traded to team he became "franchise player" for
                        Chris Paul- drafted 4th, after 6 years of winning nothing, traded
                        James Harden- traded
                        Shaq- drafted 1st, won nothing in 3 years, traded to LA, then traded to Miami

                        going back further:
                        Kareem- drafted 1st, after 6 years of winning nothing, traded
                        Wilt- drafted 1st, traded 3 times
                        Oscar Robertson- drafted 1st, after 10 years of winning nothing, traded and won a championship

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                        • #27
                          p00ka wrote: View Post
                          "FRANCHISE PLAYERS DONT GET TRADED, THEY GET DRAFTED, THAT'S WHY YOU CALL THEM FRANCHISE PLAYERS."

                          Thanks for the inaccurate cliche, but in over 50 years of the NBA, how many teams won through tanking?

                          That aside, I don't know what criteria you use for "franchise player" (can you tell me?), but for some examples:

                          Kobe- drafted 13th by one team, obtained through trade
                          Dwight- drafted 1st, won nothing in 8 years, traded
                          Lebron- drafted 1st, won nothing in 7 years, then left drafting team through free agency
                          Pau Gasol, drafted 3rd, won nothing in 6 years, traded
                          KG- drafted 5th, won nothing in 12 years, traded
                          Dirk- drafted 9th, traded to team he became "franchise player" for
                          Chris Paul- drafted 4th, after 6 years of winning nothing, traded
                          James Harden- traded
                          Shaq- drafted 1st, won nothing in 3 years, traded to LA, then traded to Miami

                          going back further:
                          Kareem- drafted 1st, after 6 years of winning nothing, traded
                          Wilt- drafted 1st, traded 3 times
                          Oscar Robertson- drafted 1st, after 10 years of winning nothing, traded and won a championship
                          Kareem won a championship with the Bucks, the team that drafted him.

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                          • #28
                            enlightenment wrote: View Post
                            I searched it up myself before you guys brought up San antonio. They didnt tank at all.

                            "Robinson missed the first month of the season due to a back injury. He returned in December, but played only six games before a broken foot sidelined him for the rest of the season. Elliott also missed more than half the season due to injury. Without Robinson and Elliott, the Spurs were a rudderless team. "

                            Injury =/= Purposeful tanking (trading your stars for picks and expiring contracts)
                            Dude, I was actually watching that season. San Antonio tanked. They didn't injure Robinson's foot on purpose, of course, but they rested Elliot more than they had to, ditto Chuck Person, and then they signed a backcourt of Vinny Del Negro and Avery Johnson to play out the season. Their most valuable player that season was an elderly Dominique Wilkins. That's what tanking looks like in retrospect: a bunch of things that are mostly things you can explain away, because you can't just sit out games or send out Muggsy Bogues to play all by himself, you still have to field a team.

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                            • #29
                              lol..I think it's cuz raptors fans are sick of losing brah...to answer the question.

                              Everyone's basically said it though.. why tank when there is absolutely no guarantee and there are clearly teams out there who will and are doing it better.

                              It's obvious our goal isn't to tank, especially with the bledsoe rumors. If we move demar + bargs for a packgage that includes bledsoe + butler and who knows.. we're simply rebuilding around rudy, JV and Amir probably. It would mean look for a subsequent trade of lowry, and we'll have a very different looking team next year.

                              Of course that all depends on if we do land bledsoe. I feel that's the best case scenario

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                              • #30
                                p00ka wrote: View Post
                                "FRANCHISE PLAYERS DONT GET TRADED, THEY GET DRAFTED, THAT'S WHY YOU CALL THEM FRANCHISE PLAYERS."

                                Thanks for the inaccurate cliche, but in over 50 years of the NBA, how many teams won through tanking?
                                You can't get win a championship just by tanking. Tanking gives you your core, and you build from there. Good teams build on their core and turn it into victories; great teams win the Championship. And even then, luck plays a factor (look how close the Spurs just came in this past finals; that series literally came down to a handful of very difficult shots). Let's go through some of the list you just dismissed because they didn't win the Championship:

                                Dwight: three times to the first round of the playoffs, once to the second round of the playoffs, one Conference finals, one NBA Finals appearance
                                LeBron: three times to the second round, one Conference finals, one NBA Finals
                                Pau: Not exactly a "franchise guy" - Pau's a great second banana - but still, four playoff runs
                                KG: seven straight first-rounders and one Conference finals (Minnesota is a great example of a team that got talent and didn't know what to do with it)

                                Let's compare those to Toronto's two All-Star draftees. Vince got us to two first-round appearances and a second-round appearance before he bailed on us; Bosh got us two first-round appearances after Carter left. Now, neither Vince nor Bosh is really a Franchise Guy on the level of Kobe or LeBron, but they're respectable. The problem there was a combination of player unhappiness and a front office that was completely and utterly hapless (quite comparable to Minnesota's reign with KG).

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