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  • #91
    Neither do I, hence my quote.

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    • #92
      Not when Demar is heading their way.
      “The saving of our world from pending doom will come, not through the complacent adjustment of the conforming majority, but through the creative maladjustment of a nonconforming minority.” - Martin Luther King

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      • #93
        magoon wrote: View Post
        Because if Rudy Gay is our best player, we don't have a good team. It's really that simple. We already know how good this team was last year when we weren't playing Bargnani (who actively hurt us, because he was just that bad): we're a .500 team. A .500 team is good for maybe 7th or 8th seed in the East. let's say magically DeMar and Rudy get better, which likely won't happen but it COULD, and we win another four or five games - now we're the 6th seed and a likely first-round playoff exit. That's our ceiling.

        If you're happy with that, then go cheer for the fucking Milwaukee Bucks and every year you can enjoy the thrill of MAYBEEEEE making the playoffs. Me: I want a team that can contend. You know how happy Golden State fans are today with the Iguodala signing? They're a POWER now, a top-4 team in the West. That's what I want, and we're not going to be a power with this team. Not ever, because as good a GM as Ujiri might be, he's not magic, and he can't make other teams trade away the franchise player we don't have because most NBA trades are generally relatively balanced - except when one team is gambling, like in the Bargnani trade.

        We've sucked for a long time, but we've never done a proper rebuild because every year BC would brew up a fresh batch of We Only Need Incremental Change Kool-Aid and too many fans would drink it up and ask for more, and then we'd suck because the Raptors didn't need incremental change, they needed a teardown and proper rebuild. And we still need that, except BC is gone, so fans are brewing the Kool-Aid themselves and convincing themselves that Rudy and DeMar are likely to get better rather than being the known quantities they are. Have fun with that; I want a winning team and they aren't on it, and we need to trade them now before other teams actively recognize that they're just average players with inflated salaries.
        Carter got injured, we sucked and drafted Bosh. Then we would have had Bosh and Carter, but carter dipped before bosh got good.

        I am saying keep Rudy and get him his Bosh..

        You don't build around one player. Unless, it's Lebron or KD. You form a team around 3 or 4 star players. Look at San Antonio, Memphis,Indiana, etc.

        We have Gay, that's one. Where are the other two or three?
        If Your Uncle Jack Helped You Off An Elephant, Would You Help Your Uncle Jack Off An Elephant?

        Sometimes, I like to buy a book on CD and listen to it, while reading music.

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        • #94
          magoon wrote: View Post
          Because if Rudy Gay is our best player, we don't have a good team. It's really that simple. We already know how good this team was last year when we weren't playing Bargnani (who actively hurt us, because he was just that bad): we're a .500 team. A .500 team is good for maybe 7th or 8th seed in the East. let's say magically DeMar and Rudy get better, which likely won't happen but it COULD, and we win another four or five games - now we're the 6th seed and a likely first-round playoff exit. That's our ceiling.

          If you're happy with that, then go cheer for the fucking Milwaukee Bucks and every year you can enjoy the thrill of MAYBEEEEE making the playoffs. Me: I want a team that can contend. You know how happy Golden State fans are today with the Iguodala signing? They're a POWER now, a top-4 team in the West. That's what I want, and we're not going to be a power with this team. Not ever, because as good a GM as Ujiri might be, he's not magic, and he can't make other teams trade away the franchise player we don't have because most NBA trades are generally relatively balanced - except when one team is gambling, like in the Bargnani trade.

          We've sucked for a long time, but we've never done a proper rebuild because every year BC would brew up a fresh batch of We Only Need Incremental Change Kool-Aid and too many fans would drink it up and ask for more, and then we'd suck because the Raptors didn't need incremental change, they needed a teardown and proper rebuild. And we still need that, except BC is gone, so fans are brewing the Kool-Aid themselves and convincing themselves that Rudy and DeMar are likely to get better rather than being the known quantities they are. Have fun with that; I want a winning team and they aren't on it, and we need to trade them now before other teams actively recognize that they're just average players with inflated salaries.
          So your analysis of this team and the ceiling:
          - gives no substance to JV being better than his rookie year, and not becoming the beast that it appears he could become.
          - gives no substance to Ross being better than his lame rookie year (he would be far from the first to make a big leap in his 2nd, 3rd years)
          - assumes Fields cannot be better than his year with a lame shooting arm
          - assumes Lowry will not be better than his injury plagued year
          - assumes Amir, at only 26, won"t continue to develop further
          - gives no substance to the value of a team actually having some time to stay together, and develop together as a team. The NBA isn"t YMCA pickup games. TEAMS actually get better with keeping them together with good coaching.

          I feel sorry for you. It must suck.

          PS. all you people who are so convinced that DeMar, at 23, as hard working as he is, is at his ceiling,,,,,, let"s just say I think y"all are mistaken
          Last edited by p00ka; Fri Jul 5th, 2013, 05:12 PM.

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          • #95
            LBF wrote: View Post
            I don't have any faith left in this organization if they blow the team up again.
            I know where your coming from -- it's hard being a Raptors fan

            but we have never truly blown up the team in 2004 the carter trade was just terrible and the draft was a poor selection. In 2005 we had a terrible team but were still attempting to build around Bosh (not sure if it was an intentional tank or our team was just that bad highlighted by starting Mike James and Araujo)

            in 2006 we got the top draft pick but we all know how that went --- Colangelo never blew up the team always swinging for overrated vets --- and even after losing Bosh tried to build around Bargnani

            I'm not interested in a full out blow up either if we can somehow get a high 2014 pick from another team (though is seems damn near impossible)

            but I wouldn't mind a full out blow up if it was done properly --- the likes of which a Raptor fan has never seen ... good young talent on the team (JV, Ross, Amir) and then with the other assets bring in a shit load of picks and other young talent.... which would also hopefully bring cap space to sign players next year (Deng, Ridnour, Gortat) to play with the core --- though 2015 FAs look better

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            • #96
              connected wrote: View Post
              I know where your coming from -- it's hard being a Raptors fan

              but we have never truly blown up the team in 2004 the carter trade was just terrible and the draft was a poor selection. In 2005 we had a terrible team but were still attempting to build around Bosh (not sure if it was an intentional tank or our team was just that bad highlighted by starting Mike James and Araujo)

              in 2006 we got the top draft pick but we all know how that went --- Colangelo never blew up the team always swinging for overrated vets --- and even after losing Bosh tried to build around Bargnani

              I'm not interested in a full out blow up either if we can somehow get a high 2014 pick from another team (though is seems damn near impossible)

              but I wouldn't mind a full out blow up if it was done properly --- the likes of which a Raptor fan has never seen ... good young talent on the team (JV, Ross, Amir) and then with the other assets bring in a shit load of picks and other young talent.... which would also hopefully bring cap space to sign players next year (Deng, Ridnour, Gortat) to play with the core --- though 2015 FAs look better
              I don't think MLSE wants a full-out blow up, jump the shark, tank, w/e you call it.

              Maybe, things have changed with new ownership or so, it would seem. But, I question if it was beyond Colangelo...
              If Your Uncle Jack Helped You Off An Elephant, Would You Help Your Uncle Jack Off An Elephant?

              Sometimes, I like to buy a book on CD and listen to it, while reading music.

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              • #97

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                • #98
                  Nilanka wrote: View Post
                  It's the never-ending "win now" vs. "tank" debate.
                  Yeah, it's like some people can't understand there are ways to build a team without tanking and without short sight trades...

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                  • #99
                    Waiting on Dwight to leave GSW at the altar...LOL...there hasnt been confirmation from his camp has there?

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                    • Man... I want Millsap in a Raptors jersey SO BAD. I would even trade Derozan for him.
                      The Baltic Beast is unstoppable!

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                      • If Dwight made up his mind, why hasn't he told anyone yet?? If he isn't returning to Lakerland, there will be chaos in L.A. I really like Houston, so I don't know if I want him going there..

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                        • Raptor_11 wrote: View Post
                          If Dwight made up his mind, why hasn't he told anyone yet?? If he isn't returning to Lakerland, there will be chaos in L.A. I really like Houston, so I don't know if I want him going there..
                          Well, Gasol predicted he was going to Houston. The only rumour I read said he was re-signing in LA.

                          I've read nothing about his interest in any of the other teams involved. Just their interst in him
                          If Your Uncle Jack Helped You Off An Elephant, Would You Help Your Uncle Jack Off An Elephant?

                          Sometimes, I like to buy a book on CD and listen to it, while reading music.

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                          • Rapstor4Life wrote: View Post
                            Fuck Dwight Howard! why do teams want that clwon?
                            When he's not being a clown, he's a pretty damn good basketball player

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                            • Looks like its Houston

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                              • LBF wrote: View Post
                                I don't have any faith left in this organization if they blow the team up again.
                                I agree. It never worked before and we'll be doing the exact same thing we've done the last 5 years. It's not a very creative plan. It's simply gut the team and hope we pick #1. If it doesn't work we're completely fucked.

                                Like, what if the guy we draft is a bust? We're looking at another few years of rebuilding. It's just a fucking stupid Idea to me.

                                It doesn't take a genius to tank and get the #1 pick, all you have to do is fuck the dog and hope for the best. We didn't hire Ujiri to do the exact same thing every other GM has already though of and/or considered.

                                We hired Ujiri because he's a smart person and can come up with better idea than blow it up and hope for the best.

                                Fuck.
                                You come at the King, you best not miss.

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