Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

The Raptors and the Salary Cap/Luxury Tax

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    I added Richardson to the depth chart. Have you (or anybody else) heard anything about his contract? I'm assuming it's going to be a minimum deal, fully guaranteed for the first season, which pushes us even further into luxury cap territory.
    It is a vet minimum.

    But not pushing any farther than the numbers I gave as it is in the link.

    Comment


    • #17
      tkfu wrote: View Post
      Here are my totals for Raps cap number. The site you quoted seems to be a little bit confused about its data; it lists Landry's cap number instead of his salary, but lists Q-Rich and Stone's salaries instead of their cap numbers. So, for the sake of consistency, and because it's what everyone except for the guy writing the cheques cares about, here is the Raptors' cap situation for 2013-2014:

      Rudy Gay 17,888,932
      Landry Fields 6,250,000
      Amir Johnson 6,500,000
      Kyle Lowry 6,210,000
      Linas Kleiza 4,600,000
      Jonas Valanciunas 3,526,440
      DeMar Derozan 9,500,000
      Aaron Gray 2,690,875
      Terrence Ross 2,678,640
      Quincy Acy 788,872
      Steve Novak 3,750,001
      Marcus Camby 4,383,773
      Julyan Stone 884,293
      Quentin Richardson 884,293
      -------------------------------
      Total 70,536,119

      Given that it's been reported Hansbrough got $3 million, that does indeed put us in luxury tax territory at $73,536,119. That means we would be over the tax line by $1,788,119, with exactly 15 players on the roster. We're almost certainly not going to stay that way, though. There are three interesting scenarios for us to get under the tax line, and I think which one gets used will depend on whether Masai finds someone he thinks is worth giving the bi-annual exception or the rest of the MLE to.

      Scenario 1: Kleiza gets amnestied. That would take his $4,600,000 off the cap, putting us under the tax line by $2,811,881. That allows a number of useful scenarios, such as cutting Q-Rich, signing a free agent with the $2 million bi-annual exception or the remainder of the MLE, and signing one more player to a minimum contract.

      Scenario 2: Camby gets waived. If we wanted to get under the cap by buying out Camby, he'd need to accept a buyout of $2,489,149 or less. I don't think that's very likely. Far more likely would be using the stretch provision on him (assuming the reports that he's got $1 million guaranteed on his last year are correct). That would put his cap number at $1,076,755 for each of the next 5 years. Add a minimum deal in his place, and we'd still be $634,606 under the tax line--enough to waive Q-Rich and sign a rookie free agent like Myck Kabongo. Or it could be saved, to use in case we need to sign someone to a 10-day during the season.

      Scenario 3: Both Scenario 1 and Scenario 2 happen. This would be if Masai wants to sign two free agents to more-than-minimum deals, one using the rest of the MLE and one using the bi-annual. It would leave us $6,118,899 under the tax line, enough to use the $2,016,000 bi-annual exception and the $2,150,000 balance of the MLE, as well as one more minimum-salary deal if Q-Rich is waived. I'd say this is the least likely of the three.

      Looks to me like Bobby Webster, our new capologist, been doing his job: Hansbrough's deal is exactly the right amount to give maximum flexibility for the rest of the summer and going forward.
      The site I used lists Landry as $6.25M which is his cap hit. It is the average of his 3 year deal with year 1 and 2 around $5M and year 3 at $8.5M.

      Stone has 2 years in the league so for year 3 in 2013-14 he comes in at $884K. Richardson on the other hand is a 10+ year veteran and makes $1.399M.

      When a player has been in the NBA for three or more seasons, and is playing under a one-year, 10-day or rest-of-season contract at the minimum salary, the league reimburses the team for part of his salary -- any amount above the minimum salary level for a two-year veteran3. For example, in 2011-12 the minimum salary for a two-year veteran is $854,389, so for a ten-year veteran, with a minimum salary of $1,352,181, the league would reimburse the team $497,792. Only the two-year minimum salary is included in the team salary, not the player's full salary. They do this so teams won't shy away from signing older veterans simply because they are more expensive than younger veterans.

      http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q16
      The mistake you picked up on is HoopsWorld.com uses the entire salary in their calculation whereas they should only be using what a two-year veteran is paid. For 2013-14 that number is $884k.

      I will fix my original post by subtracting $515K.

      Comment


      • #18
        it's good to have more than one cap genius around here.
        "They're going to have to rename the whole conference after us: Toronto Raptors 2014-2015 Northern Conference Champions" ~ ezzbee Dec. 2014

        "I guess I got a little carried away there" ~ ezzbee Apr. 2015

        "We only have one rule on this team. What is that rule? E.L.E. That's right's, E.L.E, and what does E.L.E. stand for? EVERYBODY LOVE EVERYBODY. Right there up on the wall, because this isn't just a basketball team, this is a lifestyle. ~ Jackie Moon

        Comment


        • #19
          Bobby Webster is a smart cookie.

          However, if a team uses its Non-Taxpayer Mid-Level exception but does not exceed the constraints of the Taxpayer Mid-Level exception (e.g., in 2011-12 they use the Non-Taxpayer Mid-Level exception to sign a player for $3 million or less), then the team is allowed to later exceed the apron (i.e., it is not hard-capped). If the team later exceeds the apron, then it is considered to have used the Taxpayer Mid-Level exception rather than the Non-Taxpayer Mid-Level exception. But the converse is not true -- if a team is above the apron and spends any of its Taxpayer Mid-Level exception, it cannot drop below the apron and spend the remaining money as part of its Non-Taxpayer Mid-Level exception. Finally, a team that was above the apron but did not spend any of its Taxpayer Mid-Level exception has full access to the Non-Taxpayer Mid-Level exception if it later drops below the apron.

          http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q25
          Flexibility remains for trades.

          I thought if you used the non-tax MLE (i.e. FULL MLE) you could not go over the apron. This is WRONG. Turns out that not exceeding the limits of the TAX MLE gives the Raptors the ability to not be hard-capped.



          What does this mean?

          As long as the Raptors do not touch their MLE to sign anyone else, they are not hard capped at $4M more than luxury tax ($71.748M).



          What does it mean for any more possible free agents?

          They are limited to minimum salaries.
          If they use the rest of their MLE they go over apron, so they can't.
          They cannot use Bi=Annual exception because it takes them over apron as well.

          Again from Mr. Coon:
          BI-ANNUAL EXCEPTION -- This exception is available only to teams that are below the "apron" (i.e., not paying luxury tax, or less than $4 million above the tax line). This determination is made after the exception is used, so a team below the apron cannot use this exception if doing so takes them above the apron. It cannot be used if the team has already used the Taxpayer Mid-Level Exception or the Room Mid-Level exception. It allows a team to sign any free agent, starting at up to the following amounts:
          A team that uses its Bi-Annual exception cannot go above the apron for the remainder of that season. In other words, once a team uses its Bi-Annual exception, the apron effectively becomes a hard cap for the remainder of that season4. This eliminates any potential loophole where a team could first use its Bi-Annual exception and subsequently add salary to go above the apron, when doing so in the opposite order (adding salary first, and then using the exception) would be illegal.


          Only options to add players now is through:

          1. minimum contracts
          2. trades
          3. Amnesty and then Bi-Annual or remaining non-tax MLE become available BUT Raptors face hard cap of $75.748m.

          Comment


          • #20
            WOW, $73.5 mil for this group of players! With their ceiling! If this alone isn't an argument for blowing this team up ...

            Comment


            • #21
              I thought we were already hard-capped because we received Richardson in a sign and trade.

              edit: Coon confirms this:

              http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q89

              Starting in 2013-14 if a team acquires a player in a sign-and-trade, the apron ($4 million above the tax line) effectively becomes a hard cap for the remainder of that season.
              Last edited by octothorp; Fri Jul 12th, 2013, 11:10 AM.

              Comment


              • #22
                octothorp wrote: View Post
                I thought we were already hard-capped because we received Richardson in a sign and trade.

                edit: Coon confirms this:
                Good pick up on that.

                Can you put the link for the question that came from in please?

                Comment


                • #23
                  Kudos to all the forum capologists for their terrific distilling of the cba. Frankly I still glaze over some of the rules.

                  Just seeing it in print further confirms what a "great collection" of talent for a luxury tax team we have!!

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    I made some changes people might be interested in. Anyone feel free to correct any mistakes.

                    Bold are changes from original post:











                    Here is Raptors 2013-14 payroll via HoopsWorld.com:

                    http://www.hoopsworld.com/toronto-raptors-team-salary

                    Raptors guaranteed total: $65.324M

                    Raptors options total: $70.535M

                    BUT BUT BUT That does not include Hansbrough so tack on $2.5M.

                    $67.82M and $74.035M.




                    What does this mean for Toronto?

                    #1 As octothorp noted, Raps are a hard cap team due to sign and trade with Q-Rich coming back. Max salary for 2013-14 is $75.748M.

                    #2 Raps are over the salary cap.

                    #3 They are a luxury tax team.

                    #4 The Raptors tax bill or final payroll is not determined until the final regular season game of 13-14.

                    #5 Current Depth Chart
                    PG: Lowry, Buycks
                    SG: DD, Ross, Fields, Richardson
                    SF: Gay, Novak, Kleiza
                    PF: Amir, Hansbrough, Acy
                    C: JV, Gray, Camby

                    #6 Raptors have $2.65M of Full MLE remaining. Bi-Annual exception ($2.016M). But they can't use either without shedding salary first because they would take Raptors over hard cap. Veteran minimums are also available.

                    #7 Raptors don't have to worry about spending the minimum 90% of soft cap ($52M).



                    What is unknown:

                    #1 Will Kleiza be amnestied?

                    #3 Will Camby fork over some guaranteed money to secure his freedom and pursuit of a contender?


                    EDIT: See phez's post:

                    http://www.raptorsrepublic.com/forum...l=1#post219987

                    Will fix.

                    EDIT 2: See post tkfu post below.

                    http://www.raptorsrepublic.com/forum...l=1#post220065

                    Will fix.

                    EDIT 3: See post below.

                    http://www.raptorsrepublic.com/forum...l=1#post220315

                    Will fix.
                    Last edited by mcHAPPY; Tue Jul 16th, 2013, 06:06 AM.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Interesting to note that Toronto, facing the hard cap of $75.748 could amnesty Kleiza and still be able to use the rest of their MLE, Bi-Annual, and sign Stone to the minimum deal and STILL not be over the hard cap. That does not even consider any Camby buyout or trade.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Matt52 wrote: View Post
                        Interesting to note that Toronto, facing the hard cap of $75.748 could amnesty Kleiza and still be able to use the rest of their MLE, Bi-Annual, and sign Stone to the minimum deal and STILL not be over the hard cap. That does not even consider any Camby buyout or trade.
                        Massai you son of a bitch!
                        @Chr1st1anL

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          *Update to reflect amnesty and Buycks addition.*


                          I made some changes people might be interested in. Anyone feel free to correct any mistakes.

                          Bold are changes from original post:











                          Here is Raptors 2013-14 payroll via HoopsWorld.com:

                          http://www.hoopsworld.com/toronto-raptors-team-salary

                          http://data.shamsports.com/content/p...es/raptors.jsp

                          Raptors cap hit for 2013-14 right now is: $68.038M.





                          What does this mean for Toronto?

                          #1 As octothorp noted, Raps are a hard cap team due to sign and trade with Q-Rich coming back. Max salary for 2013-14 is $75.748M.

                          #2 Raps are over the salary cap.

                          #3 The Raptors tax bill or final payroll is not determined until the final regular season game of 13-14.

                          #4 Current Depth Chart
                          PG: Lowry, Buycks
                          SG: DD, Ross, Fields
                          SF: Gay, Novak, Richardson
                          PF: Amir, Hansbrough, Acy
                          C: JV, Gray, Camby

                          1 roster spot available.

                          #5 Raptors have $2.65M of Full MLE remaining. Bi-Annual exception ($2.016M). Veteran minimums are also available.

                          #6 Raptors don't have to worry about spending the minimum 90% of soft cap ($52M).



                          What is unknown:

                          #1 Will Camby fork over some guaranteed money to secure his freedom and pursuit of a contender?


                          EDIT: See phez's post:

                          http://www.raptorsrepublic.com/forum...l=1#post219987

                          Will fix.

                          EDIT 2: See post tkfu post below.

                          http://www.raptorsrepublic.com/forum...l=1#post220065

                          Will fix.

                          EDIT 3: See post below.

                          http://www.raptorsrepublic.com/forum...l=1#post220315

                          Will fix.

                          Update:

                          Raptors cap hit for 2013-14 right now is: $68.038M.


                          The importance of amnestying Kleiza:

                          Don't listen to Doug Smith on amnestying Kleiza. His need to grind his axe because all his buddies are gone does not let him think logically.

                          Amnestying Kleiza was a great move:
                          1) Raptors now have ability to use remainder of MLE ($2.65M) and Bi-Annual Exception ($2.016M) without hitting hard cap and ignoring Camby situation.
                          2) Raptors can now take up to $7.7M more back in any trade(s) assuming 125%+$100K - 150%+$100K - $5M rules of CBA all adhered to.
                          3) Dead weight removed from roster.
                          4) If they finish the year under luxury tax, they get slice of revenue sharing which could be significant this year considering Brooklyn will pay $82M in luxury tax.
                          5) If they finish the year under luxury tax, they save a year towards repeater tax.

                          4&5 are not basketball reasons but they are certainly important especially when, if this tweet is true, two GM's tried to move him to no avail:




                          He had no value.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            *Update to reflect Camby waive and Augustin signing*


                            I made some changes people might be interested in. Anyone feel free to correct any mistakes.

                            Bold are changes from original post:











                            Here is Raptors 2013-14 payroll via HoopsWorld.com:

                            http://www.hoopsworld.com/toronto-raptors-team-salary

                            http://data.shamsports.com/content/p...es/raptors.jsp

                            Raptors cap hit for 2013-14 right now is: $69.298M.





                            What does this mean for Toronto?

                            #1 As octothorp noted, Raps are a hard cap team due to sign and trade with Q-Rich coming back. Max salary for 2013-14 is $75.748M.

                            #2 Raps are over the salary cap.

                            #3 The Raptors tax bill or final payroll is not determined until the final regular season game of 13-14.

                            #4 Current Depth Chart
                            PG: Lowry, Augustin, Buycks
                            SG: DD, Ross, Fields
                            SF: Gay, Novak, Richardson
                            PF: Amir, Hansbrough, Acy
                            C: JV, Gray

                            1 roster spot available.

                            #5 Raptors have $2.65M of Full MLE remaining. Bi-Annual exception ($2.016M). Veteran minimums are also available.

                            #6 Raptors don't have to worry about spending the minimum 90% of soft cap ($52M).



                            What is unknown:

                            #1 With Camby bought out, did he give up any guaranteed coin? If so, subtract it from $69.298M.


                            EDIT: See phez's post:

                            http://www.raptorsrepublic.com/forum...l=1#post219987

                            Will fix.

                            EDIT 2: See post tkfu post below.

                            http://www.raptorsrepublic.com/forum...l=1#post220065

                            Will fix.

                            EDIT 3: See post below.

                            http://www.raptorsrepublic.com/forum...l=1#post220315

                            Will fix.

                            Update:

                            Raptors cap hit for 2013-14 right now is: $68.038M.


                            The importance of amnestying Kleiza:

                            Don't listen to Doug Smith on amnestying Kleiza. His need to grind his axe because all his buddies are gone does not let him think logically.

                            Amnestying Kleiza was a great move:
                            1) Raptors now have ability to use remainder of MLE ($2.65M) and Bi-Annual Exception ($2.016M) without hitting hard cap and ignoring Camby situation.
                            2) Raptors can now take up to $7.7M more back in any trade(s) assuming 125%+$100K - 150%+$100K - $5M rules of CBA all adhered to.
                            3) Dead weight removed from roster.
                            4) If they finish the year under luxury tax, they get slice of revenue sharing which could be significant this year considering Brooklyn will pay $82M in luxury tax.
                            5) If they finish the year under luxury tax, they save a year towards repeater tax.

                            4&5 are not basketball reasons but they are certainly important especially when, if this tweet is true, two GM's tried to move him to no avail:




                            He had no value.

                            Comment

                            Working...
                            X