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  • mcHAPPY
    replied
    *Update to reflect Camby waive and Augustin signing*


    I made some changes people might be interested in. Anyone feel free to correct any mistakes.

    Bold are changes from original post:











    Here is Raptors 2013-14 payroll via HoopsWorld.com:

    http://www.hoopsworld.com/toronto-raptors-team-salary

    http://data.shamsports.com/content/p...es/raptors.jsp

    Raptors cap hit for 2013-14 right now is: $69.298M.





    What does this mean for Toronto?

    #1 As octothorp noted, Raps are a hard cap team due to sign and trade with Q-Rich coming back. Max salary for 2013-14 is $75.748M.

    #2 Raps are over the salary cap.

    #3 The Raptors tax bill or final payroll is not determined until the final regular season game of 13-14.

    #4 Current Depth Chart
    PG: Lowry, Augustin, Buycks
    SG: DD, Ross, Fields
    SF: Gay, Novak, Richardson
    PF: Amir, Hansbrough, Acy
    C: JV, Gray

    1 roster spot available.

    #5 Raptors have $2.65M of Full MLE remaining. Bi-Annual exception ($2.016M). Veteran minimums are also available.

    #6 Raptors don't have to worry about spending the minimum 90% of soft cap ($52M).



    What is unknown:

    #1 With Camby bought out, did he give up any guaranteed coin? If so, subtract it from $69.298M.


    EDIT: See phez's post:

    http://www.raptorsrepublic.com/forum...l=1#post219987

    Will fix.

    EDIT 2: See post tkfu post below.

    http://www.raptorsrepublic.com/forum...l=1#post220065

    Will fix.

    EDIT 3: See post below.

    http://www.raptorsrepublic.com/forum...l=1#post220315

    Will fix.

    Update:

    Raptors cap hit for 2013-14 right now is: $68.038M.


    The importance of amnestying Kleiza:

    Don't listen to Doug Smith on amnestying Kleiza. His need to grind his axe because all his buddies are gone does not let him think logically.

    Amnestying Kleiza was a great move:
    1) Raptors now have ability to use remainder of MLE ($2.65M) and Bi-Annual Exception ($2.016M) without hitting hard cap and ignoring Camby situation.
    2) Raptors can now take up to $7.7M more back in any trade(s) assuming 125%+$100K - 150%+$100K - $5M rules of CBA all adhered to.
    3) Dead weight removed from roster.
    4) If they finish the year under luxury tax, they get slice of revenue sharing which could be significant this year considering Brooklyn will pay $82M in luxury tax.
    5) If they finish the year under luxury tax, they save a year towards repeater tax.

    4&5 are not basketball reasons but they are certainly important especially when, if this tweet is true, two GM's tried to move him to no avail:




    He had no value.

    Leave a comment:


  • mcHAPPY
    replied
    *Update to reflect amnesty and Buycks addition.*


    I made some changes people might be interested in. Anyone feel free to correct any mistakes.

    Bold are changes from original post:











    Here is Raptors 2013-14 payroll via HoopsWorld.com:

    http://www.hoopsworld.com/toronto-raptors-team-salary

    http://data.shamsports.com/content/p...es/raptors.jsp

    Raptors cap hit for 2013-14 right now is: $68.038M.





    What does this mean for Toronto?

    #1 As octothorp noted, Raps are a hard cap team due to sign and trade with Q-Rich coming back. Max salary for 2013-14 is $75.748M.

    #2 Raps are over the salary cap.

    #3 The Raptors tax bill or final payroll is not determined until the final regular season game of 13-14.

    #4 Current Depth Chart
    PG: Lowry, Buycks
    SG: DD, Ross, Fields
    SF: Gay, Novak, Richardson
    PF: Amir, Hansbrough, Acy
    C: JV, Gray, Camby

    1 roster spot available.

    #5 Raptors have $2.65M of Full MLE remaining. Bi-Annual exception ($2.016M). Veteran minimums are also available.

    #6 Raptors don't have to worry about spending the minimum 90% of soft cap ($52M).



    What is unknown:

    #1 Will Camby fork over some guaranteed money to secure his freedom and pursuit of a contender?


    EDIT: See phez's post:

    http://www.raptorsrepublic.com/forum...l=1#post219987

    Will fix.

    EDIT 2: See post tkfu post below.

    http://www.raptorsrepublic.com/forum...l=1#post220065

    Will fix.

    EDIT 3: See post below.

    http://www.raptorsrepublic.com/forum...l=1#post220315

    Will fix.

    Update:

    Raptors cap hit for 2013-14 right now is: $68.038M.


    The importance of amnestying Kleiza:

    Don't listen to Doug Smith on amnestying Kleiza. His need to grind his axe because all his buddies are gone does not let him think logically.

    Amnestying Kleiza was a great move:
    1) Raptors now have ability to use remainder of MLE ($2.65M) and Bi-Annual Exception ($2.016M) without hitting hard cap and ignoring Camby situation.
    2) Raptors can now take up to $7.7M more back in any trade(s) assuming 125%+$100K - 150%+$100K - $5M rules of CBA all adhered to.
    3) Dead weight removed from roster.
    4) If they finish the year under luxury tax, they get slice of revenue sharing which could be significant this year considering Brooklyn will pay $82M in luxury tax.
    5) If they finish the year under luxury tax, they save a year towards repeater tax.

    4&5 are not basketball reasons but they are certainly important especially when, if this tweet is true, two GM's tried to move him to no avail:




    He had no value.

    Leave a comment:


  • Chr1s1anL
    replied
    Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Interesting to note that Toronto, facing the hard cap of $75.748 could amnesty Kleiza and still be able to use the rest of their MLE, Bi-Annual, and sign Stone to the minimum deal and STILL not be over the hard cap. That does not even consider any Camby buyout or trade.
    Massai you son of a bitch!

    Leave a comment:


  • mcHAPPY
    replied
    Interesting to note that Toronto, facing the hard cap of $75.748 could amnesty Kleiza and still be able to use the rest of their MLE, Bi-Annual, and sign Stone to the minimum deal and STILL not be over the hard cap. That does not even consider any Camby buyout or trade.

    Leave a comment:


  • mcHAPPY
    replied
    I made some changes people might be interested in. Anyone feel free to correct any mistakes.

    Bold are changes from original post:











    Here is Raptors 2013-14 payroll via HoopsWorld.com:

    http://www.hoopsworld.com/toronto-raptors-team-salary

    Raptors guaranteed total: $65.324M

    Raptors options total: $70.535M

    BUT BUT BUT That does not include Hansbrough so tack on $2.5M.

    $67.82M and $74.035M.




    What does this mean for Toronto?

    #1 As octothorp noted, Raps are a hard cap team due to sign and trade with Q-Rich coming back. Max salary for 2013-14 is $75.748M.

    #2 Raps are over the salary cap.

    #3 They are a luxury tax team.

    #4 The Raptors tax bill or final payroll is not determined until the final regular season game of 13-14.

    #5 Current Depth Chart
    PG: Lowry, Buycks
    SG: DD, Ross, Fields, Richardson
    SF: Gay, Novak, Kleiza
    PF: Amir, Hansbrough, Acy
    C: JV, Gray, Camby

    #6 Raptors have $2.65M of Full MLE remaining. Bi-Annual exception ($2.016M). But they can't use either without shedding salary first because they would take Raptors over hard cap. Veteran minimums are also available.

    #7 Raptors don't have to worry about spending the minimum 90% of soft cap ($52M).



    What is unknown:

    #1 Will Kleiza be amnestied?

    #3 Will Camby fork over some guaranteed money to secure his freedom and pursuit of a contender?


    EDIT: See phez's post:

    http://www.raptorsrepublic.com/forum...l=1#post219987

    Will fix.

    EDIT 2: See post tkfu post below.

    http://www.raptorsrepublic.com/forum...l=1#post220065

    Will fix.

    EDIT 3: See post below.

    http://www.raptorsrepublic.com/forum...l=1#post220315

    Will fix.
    Last edited by mcHAPPY; Tue Jul 16th, 2013, 06:06 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bendit
    replied
    Kudos to all the forum capologists for their terrific distilling of the cba. Frankly I still glaze over some of the rules.

    Just seeing it in print further confirms what a "great collection" of talent for a luxury tax team we have!!

    Leave a comment:


  • mcHAPPY
    replied
    octothorp wrote: View Post
    I thought we were already hard-capped because we received Richardson in a sign and trade.

    edit: Coon confirms this:
    Good pick up on that.

    Can you put the link for the question that came from in please?

    Leave a comment:


  • octothorp
    replied
    I thought we were already hard-capped because we received Richardson in a sign and trade.

    edit: Coon confirms this:

    http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q89

    Starting in 2013-14 if a team acquires a player in a sign-and-trade, the apron ($4 million above the tax line) effectively becomes a hard cap for the remainder of that season.
    Last edited by octothorp; Fri Jul 12th, 2013, 11:10 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Wildcat
    replied
    WOW, $73.5 mil for this group of players! With their ceiling! If this alone isn't an argument for blowing this team up ...

    Leave a comment:


  • mcHAPPY
    replied
    Bobby Webster is a smart cookie.

    However, if a team uses its Non-Taxpayer Mid-Level exception but does not exceed the constraints of the Taxpayer Mid-Level exception (e.g., in 2011-12 they use the Non-Taxpayer Mid-Level exception to sign a player for $3 million or less), then the team is allowed to later exceed the apron (i.e., it is not hard-capped). If the team later exceeds the apron, then it is considered to have used the Taxpayer Mid-Level exception rather than the Non-Taxpayer Mid-Level exception. But the converse is not true -- if a team is above the apron and spends any of its Taxpayer Mid-Level exception, it cannot drop below the apron and spend the remaining money as part of its Non-Taxpayer Mid-Level exception. Finally, a team that was above the apron but did not spend any of its Taxpayer Mid-Level exception has full access to the Non-Taxpayer Mid-Level exception if it later drops below the apron.

    http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q25
    Flexibility remains for trades.

    I thought if you used the non-tax MLE (i.e. FULL MLE) you could not go over the apron. This is WRONG. Turns out that not exceeding the limits of the TAX MLE gives the Raptors the ability to not be hard-capped.



    What does this mean?

    As long as the Raptors do not touch their MLE to sign anyone else, they are not hard capped at $4M more than luxury tax ($71.748M).



    What does it mean for any more possible free agents?

    They are limited to minimum salaries.
    If they use the rest of their MLE they go over apron, so they can't.
    They cannot use Bi=Annual exception because it takes them over apron as well.

    Again from Mr. Coon:
    BI-ANNUAL EXCEPTION -- This exception is available only to teams that are below the "apron" (i.e., not paying luxury tax, or less than $4 million above the tax line). This determination is made after the exception is used, so a team below the apron cannot use this exception if doing so takes them above the apron. It cannot be used if the team has already used the Taxpayer Mid-Level Exception or the Room Mid-Level exception. It allows a team to sign any free agent, starting at up to the following amounts:
    A team that uses its Bi-Annual exception cannot go above the apron for the remainder of that season. In other words, once a team uses its Bi-Annual exception, the apron effectively becomes a hard cap for the remainder of that season4. This eliminates any potential loophole where a team could first use its Bi-Annual exception and subsequently add salary to go above the apron, when doing so in the opposite order (adding salary first, and then using the exception) would be illegal.


    Only options to add players now is through:

    1. minimum contracts
    2. trades
    3. Amnesty and then Bi-Annual or remaining non-tax MLE become available BUT Raptors face hard cap of $75.748m.

    Leave a comment:


  • ezz_bee
    replied
    it's good to have more than one cap genius around here.

    Leave a comment:


  • mcHAPPY
    replied
    tkfu wrote: View Post
    Here are my totals for Raps cap number. The site you quoted seems to be a little bit confused about its data; it lists Landry's cap number instead of his salary, but lists Q-Rich and Stone's salaries instead of their cap numbers. So, for the sake of consistency, and because it's what everyone except for the guy writing the cheques cares about, here is the Raptors' cap situation for 2013-2014:

    Rudy Gay 17,888,932
    Landry Fields 6,250,000
    Amir Johnson 6,500,000
    Kyle Lowry 6,210,000
    Linas Kleiza 4,600,000
    Jonas Valanciunas 3,526,440
    DeMar Derozan 9,500,000
    Aaron Gray 2,690,875
    Terrence Ross 2,678,640
    Quincy Acy 788,872
    Steve Novak 3,750,001
    Marcus Camby 4,383,773
    Julyan Stone 884,293
    Quentin Richardson 884,293
    -------------------------------
    Total 70,536,119

    Given that it's been reported Hansbrough got $3 million, that does indeed put us in luxury tax territory at $73,536,119. That means we would be over the tax line by $1,788,119, with exactly 15 players on the roster. We're almost certainly not going to stay that way, though. There are three interesting scenarios for us to get under the tax line, and I think which one gets used will depend on whether Masai finds someone he thinks is worth giving the bi-annual exception or the rest of the MLE to.

    Scenario 1: Kleiza gets amnestied. That would take his $4,600,000 off the cap, putting us under the tax line by $2,811,881. That allows a number of useful scenarios, such as cutting Q-Rich, signing a free agent with the $2 million bi-annual exception or the remainder of the MLE, and signing one more player to a minimum contract.

    Scenario 2: Camby gets waived. If we wanted to get under the cap by buying out Camby, he'd need to accept a buyout of $2,489,149 or less. I don't think that's very likely. Far more likely would be using the stretch provision on him (assuming the reports that he's got $1 million guaranteed on his last year are correct). That would put his cap number at $1,076,755 for each of the next 5 years. Add a minimum deal in his place, and we'd still be $634,606 under the tax line--enough to waive Q-Rich and sign a rookie free agent like Myck Kabongo. Or it could be saved, to use in case we need to sign someone to a 10-day during the season.

    Scenario 3: Both Scenario 1 and Scenario 2 happen. This would be if Masai wants to sign two free agents to more-than-minimum deals, one using the rest of the MLE and one using the bi-annual. It would leave us $6,118,899 under the tax line, enough to use the $2,016,000 bi-annual exception and the $2,150,000 balance of the MLE, as well as one more minimum-salary deal if Q-Rich is waived. I'd say this is the least likely of the three.

    Looks to me like Bobby Webster, our new capologist, been doing his job: Hansbrough's deal is exactly the right amount to give maximum flexibility for the rest of the summer and going forward.
    The site I used lists Landry as $6.25M which is his cap hit. It is the average of his 3 year deal with year 1 and 2 around $5M and year 3 at $8.5M.

    Stone has 2 years in the league so for year 3 in 2013-14 he comes in at $884K. Richardson on the other hand is a 10+ year veteran and makes $1.399M.

    When a player has been in the NBA for three or more seasons, and is playing under a one-year, 10-day or rest-of-season contract at the minimum salary, the league reimburses the team for part of his salary -- any amount above the minimum salary level for a two-year veteran3. For example, in 2011-12 the minimum salary for a two-year veteran is $854,389, so for a ten-year veteran, with a minimum salary of $1,352,181, the league would reimburse the team $497,792. Only the two-year minimum salary is included in the team salary, not the player's full salary. They do this so teams won't shy away from signing older veterans simply because they are more expensive than younger veterans.

    http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q16
    The mistake you picked up on is HoopsWorld.com uses the entire salary in their calculation whereas they should only be using what a two-year veteran is paid. For 2013-14 that number is $884k.

    I will fix my original post by subtracting $515K.

    Leave a comment:


  • mcHAPPY
    replied
    CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    I added Richardson to the depth chart. Have you (or anybody else) heard anything about his contract? I'm assuming it's going to be a minimum deal, fully guaranteed for the first season, which pushes us even further into luxury cap territory.
    It is a vet minimum.

    But not pushing any farther than the numbers I gave as it is in the link.

    Leave a comment:


  • tkfu
    replied
    Oh! There's actually one more thing that adds to our flexibility, that I hadn't thought of earlier. If Q-Rich is waived and the stretch provision is used, it will actually stretch his cap hit out over 7 years, meaning it would only count for $126,328 per year. That means there are some minor changes to my post above, the most relevant one being that in Scenario 2 there would still be enough space to sign anyone to a minimum deal, not just a rookie.

    Leave a comment:


  • CalgaryRapsFan
    replied
    tkfu wrote: View Post
    Yup, Newsday reported Vet's minimum, which means a cap number of $788,872. (Actual salary is around $1.4 million, the balance of which is paid out of league funds.) The Knicks are also including $788,872 cash in the deal to pay the Raptors' portion of his salary.
    Thanks for the update, I hadn't heard about the cash being included in the transaction. This Bargnani deal keeps getting better and better! lol

    The one thing that I really like about the moves that MU has made, is that there is still so much room for flexibility, allowing him to alter course on the fly.

    EXPIRING
    - Lowry @ $6.2M
    - Kleiza @ $4.6M
    - Gray @ $2.7M

    POTENTIALLY EXPIRING (non-guaranteed or team option in 2014-15)
    - Johnson @ $6.5M
    - Camby @ $4.4M
    - Hansborough @ $3.0M
    - Richardson @ $0.8M
    - Stone @ $0.8M
    - Acy @ $0.8M
    - Valanciunas @ $3.7M (rookie-scale)
    - Ross @ $2.8M (rookie-scale)

    POTENTIALLY EXPIRING (player option for 2014-15)
    - Gay @ $17.9M


    That's quite a few attractive trade assets to work with. Even Novak @ $3.8M/$3.4M/$3.8M and DeRozan @ $9.5M/$9.5M/$9.5M/$9.5M(player option) should be considered decent trade chips. That leaves Fields @ $6.25M/$6.25M as the only other player on the roster not previously mentioned. I could see MU being extremely active at the trade deadline.
    Last edited by CalgaryRapsFan; Wed Jul 10th, 2013, 11:26 AM.

    Leave a comment:

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