Raptors really are one of the youngest teams in the league now

[mcHAPPY]

I'm just saying that you are making an assumption with Richardson, based on him never suiting up for the Raps. What if Ujiri carries him until December for trade purposes - does that change things? What if when he is waived, we sign a 103-year-old man to wave a towel from the bench? Doesn't mean much. And I realize this is just a number, but numbers are useless except for the meaning behind them, so I thought it was a valid question.

Now, I completely agree with you - it is hard to weight the ages now because there's no minutes played data for this season. That's why I hesitate to focus on a number that comes from removing Q-Rich from the lineup - we don't know for certain that he'll be waived, just like we don't know for certain that other teams might not waive some of their older players or sign some undrafted rookies to fill out their lineup. Removing Q-Rich skews the data a bit.

One thing I think we can see is that the significant change in ranking based only on removing one player shows just how closely grouped most teams are in terms of raw average age. Which suggests that since the difference between being ranked 6th and 17th is not all that much, then perhaps being ranked 6th in this raw average is nothing to be excited about.

I suppose when we have some data (and I'd be happy to compile it) for this coming season we'll see a more conclusive ranking. I'd be interested to see.

Well if Richardson suits up for Toronto I'll really have egg on my face, I guess.

As I said in the very last paragraph of the OP:

BTW, this is more of an FYI kind of thing. Never forget that talent wins and age is irrelevant unless you're trying to sell hope and potential to the fanbase.

It was meant to be an FYI kind of thing based on the ever present comment/excuse from Casey last year.

[DanH]

I don't know. I'm not even sure what you mean with your questions given the context of the post makes the assumption Richardson is waived or traded before opening day. Richardson is never going to wear a Raptor uniform and that is the only reason I excluded him.

I have said nothing about youth and the impact on the future. The closest thing to that I have said is I'd rather have the end of bench made up of guys with upside/implied youth versus non-commodities/implied fossils.

You are making a bigger question than my post was meant to be about. The fact is youth has been used as an excuse for two years when the Raptors weren't really that young (league average). Now the Raptors actually are young is my only point relative to the league IF you assume Richardson is not on the roster come opening day.

At the end of the day though, age is meaningless and talent trumps all. The Raptors have a long way to go in the talent department.

Maybe I should delete the thread and repost when Richardson is moved?

I'm just saying that you are making an assumption with Richardson, based on him never suiting up for the Raps. What if Ujiri carries him until December for trade purposes - does that change things? What if when he is waived, we sign a 103-year-old man to wave a towel from the bench? Doesn't mean much. And I realize this is just a number, but numbers are useless except for the meaning behind them, so I thought it was a valid question.

Now, I completely agree with you - it is hard to weight the ages now because there's no minutes played data for this season. That's why I hesitate to focus on a number that comes from removing Q-Rich from the lineup - we don't know for certain that he'll be waived, just like we don't know for certain that other teams might not waive some of their older players or sign some undrafted rookies to fill out their lineup. Removing Q-Rich skews the data a bit.

One thing I think we can see is that the significant change in ranking based only on removing one player shows just how closely grouped most teams are in terms of raw average age. Which suggests that since the difference between being ranked 6th and 17th is not all that much, then perhaps being ranked 6th in this raw average is nothing to be excited about.

I suppose when we have some data (and I'd be happy to compile it) for this coming season we'll see a more conclusive ranking. I'd be interested to see.

[Craiger]

I don't really pay much attention to age.. A team could be young but if most of the players have already reached their prime and are making more money than they are worth then it's really a moot point, especially if the team is bad.

It's all about talent in my opinion.

All this will prove is that Casey has an excuse already handy for his post game interviews.

I agree with this.

I also think direction + goals matter (as it relates to talent/age). If a team is tanking would there be anything wrong with a rookie Kevin Durant + 8 to 14 'Rasual Butlers'? Would we rather a team with 8 to 14 rookie 'Johnny Flynns' + Kevin Garnett?

With the exception of a handful of teams, the difference between one NBA team and another is usually pretty marginal. If we look at the BBallRef weighted ages Matt52 posted, 18 of 30 teams were 'below average' in age pus 2 who were slightly above average. The range between those 20 team is 2.5 years. I'm not sure that difference is significant except on a case by case basis (it may matter in terms of a young contending team and 2 year older just trying to make the playoff team - but between a young contender and a 2 year older contender?)

As it applies to the Raps - the team is not old by any stretch, but they are old enough and have enough experience that we can reasonably expect they "are who they are" in many cases (Amir/Gay/Demar/Lowry/Hansborough/Fields). Even if we can disagree on the impact of "who they are".

There is talent that is expected to improve and have a significant impact (Val), some that will hopefully improve enough to have an impact (Ross + Acy) - but you'll find that on every team to.


There are about 2 times where team age would have alot of meaning to me:

1) a 'young' team thats contending
2) an 'old' team thats just trying to sneak into the playoffs

[Mr.Z]

This thread got super gay real quick. Why is everyone even arguing this? Does it even really matter?

[mcHAPPY]

You're either trying to use the run-around-in-circles tactic (not the first time) to baboozle me, or the point I originally made has flown over your head. Sorry for disturbing your petty nit-picking bliss with what I thought was a respectfully expressed opinion of your post based on mature reasoning.

You can't let go of anything can you? BC, DD, our history. I used to get angry, but now I'm sad for you.

p00ka I don't get this.... at all.

I'm still confused on this matter but the larger picture is becoming clear.

I'm here for conversation. I disagree with some things you say, I agree with others. Check your notifications - I give you thumbs up on posts. Even in this thread I stated I thought your point was just as valid as my own (just my opinion of course). Not sure what else you want from me unless you are looking for Yes-men in which case I'm going to disappoint.

And are you really that jaded with me to not see "Nit-Picky is my middle name" to be tongue in cheek or sarcasm? DanH brought up valid points which were initially confusing me because I thought the parameters of the thread (age/experience) were pretty straight forward (forgetting the fact how can one weight minutes based on a season not played and with roster turnover) but it all became more clear and I attempted to correct that. Maybe 20 games in to the season I/we/someone can update the premise here with minute played adjusted minutes.

[thead]

Okay i get it now...I'm down about 1100.00 dollars but the important thing is I get it.

Sent from my Girlfriend's shitty netbook

[thead]

I just tried to work through this again and got even more angry and now I need a new phone

sent from Galaxy Tab 8.9

[p00ka]

Yeah, still confused. I thought it was all straight forward. I even provided the source for anyone who wished to look deeper.

I am talking about average age and years experience of rosters in the entire league based on information provided in the source. Nothing more.

If anyone cares to look at starting lineups or 8/9 man rotations, they can have at it.

You're either trying to use the run-around-in-circles tactic (not the first time) to baboozle me, or the point I originally made has flown over your head. Sorry for disturbing your petty nit-picking bliss with what I thought was a respectfully expressed opinion of your post based on mature reasoning.

You can't let go of anything can you? BC, DD, our history. I used to get angry, but now I'm sad for you.

[thead]

I started confused, got more confused as I went along and now I need a new monitor for my computer as I am like the Hulk when I get confused by things.

sent from Galaxy S2

[mcHAPPY]

Supposedly, BasketBall-Reference.com stats are playing time adjusted.

Looking at 2012-13:




Embed did not sort as done on website. Raptors are 11th. Only two playoff teams younger based on experience is Houston and Golden State.

Obviously we'll have to wait for 2013-14 and are stuck with the simple age/experience until some minutes are actually played.

[TRX]

I mean, weighting it by playing time is not a new concept. It's been done. Quick search found me this.

Effective age is a metric used by ESPN Insider Kevin Pelton to measure a team's average age, but weighted by minutes played, rather than a straight average (which artificially inflates the average number for a team like New York, for example, if senior citizens like Marcus Camby (38) and Kurt Thomas (40) are given the same weight as heavy-minutes players such as Carmelo Anthony, J.R. Smith and Ray Felton (all under 30)).

Below, we offer the effective ages of the top eight NBA teams currently. (Note that we based our calculations on Basketball-Reference's rounded age number, set to the player's age on February 1 of a given season.)
Effective Age, 2012-13
NYK 30.26
MIA 30.11
SAS 28.80
LAC 28.77
MEM 26.86
DEN 26.11
OKC 25.92
IND 25.77

I pretty much agree just looking at average age in a vacuum is pretty useless so... yeah. I guess I'll look a little longer and see if anyone else has done the work and published a full list free (or I guess if anyone has Insider, they can look up Pelton's) because I don't really want to, rofl

[mcHAPPY]

Last I looked, you're the OP talking of "average age", which I responded to.

Yeah, still confused. I thought it was all straight forward. I even provided the source for anyone who wished to look deeper.

I am talking about average age and years experience of rosters in the entire league based on information provided in the source. Nothing more.

If anyone cares to look at starting lineups or 8/9 man rotations, they can have at it.

[p00ka]

I'm really confused.

You do know you initiated this discussion right?

Last I looked, you're the OP talking of "average age", which I responded to.

[mcHAPPY]

I know DanH suggested that would be interesting, but I didn't realize you're thread was incorporating playing time into the equation. I was referring to the original point you made, in which case, I find one can come to a better understanding of what someone says by looking beyond dictionary definitions, and trying to understand the logical essence of what they mean, but I guess I might get uber-technical too if I couldn't let go of my hate for someone.

I'm really confused.

You do know you initiated this discussion right?

[p00ka]

Nit-Picky is my middle name.

Considering JV, ED, and TR were all nailed to bench at one point or another the last 2 years and his insistence that younger players would have been benched had the Raptors been in the playoff hunt (despite with experience down the stretch JV was getting and making the most of it i.e. about 15/8 over last 15 games of season), I think your point is as valid as my own.

I know DanH suggested that would be interesting, but I didn't realize you're thread was incorporating playing time into the equation. I was referring to the original point you made, in which case, I find one can come to a better understanding of what someone says by looking beyond dictionary definitions, and trying to understand the logical essence of what they mean, but I guess I might get uber-technical too if I couldn't let go of my hate for someone.