Bargnani vs. Vince Carter - Raptors Legacy

[Puffer]

I think a number of people don't have a clear understanding of what the term legacy means.

" something left or handed down by a predecessor."

So what did Vince leave the team? He certainly captured people's attention when he was here, but when he left, so did the attention. The fact that the crowd was energized when he played at the ACC is great, but any energy he created ended when he stopped off the floor. so again, I ask, what did he leave behind?

On the Bargnani side, he is now gone, but the Raps will be dealing with his legacy (really BC's legacy, but stick with me) for the next 2-3 years at least. Because Bargnani had such tantalizing potential, BC worked to build the team around his darling #1 pick. He made ill-advised trades, traded away draft picks, bought short term veteran rentals, and interfered with two coaches in terms of how they managed the players, creating bad habits, and a bad culture. This was more BC's direct interference, but brought on by AB's little shows of incredible talent, sandwiched in between layers of indifference.

Raptors were over Carter in a year and a half. I think it takes the Raptors 2-3 years to get over AB, not to mention Bargnani had a longer run of getting BC to believe in him and manage the team so poorly. Of course, he wasn't a predecessor while he was here, but I still believe his legacy will last longer.

[Axel]

And it wasn't just one thread. Lol. As someone mentioned the "hot topics" feature on the front page was filled with Xixak feuding with someone each day..

Anyway, ya well hopefully he'll be back and less obnoxious..getting banned(several times) certainly helped me...

Ladies and Gentlemen, the poster-boy for reformation, LBF....

[LBF]

Correction, not just Matt. Many members from this forum.

Just a little timeout for Xixak. Perhaps when it's lifted he'll come back with a better attitude and not such a big chip on his shoulder.

And it wasn't just one thread. Lol. As someone mentioned the "hot topics" feature on the front page was filled with Xixak feuding with someone each day..

Anyway, ya well hopefully he'll be back and less obnoxious..getting banned(several times) certainly helped me...

[Doc]

Got into it with Matt in another thread.

Correction, not just Matt. Many members from this forum.

Just a little timeout for Xixak. Perhaps when it's lifted he'll come back with a better attitude and not such a big chip on his shoulder.

[isaacthompson]

Anyone know why Xixak is banned?

I know he was a little thick to argue with, I wonder if he pushed it too far or something

Got into it with Matt in another thread.

[lilmamba_]

i wanted to ask that for the longest time^^^

[enlightenment]

Anyone know why Xixak is banned?

I know he was a little thick to argue with, I wonder if he pushed it too far or something

[Fair89]

In terms of legacy, I think the spectrum is like:

Bargnani (Hate) ---------- Vince Carter (Love + Hate) ---------- Chris Bosh (Indifference)

You can sprinkle in the Hedo's, Stoudemire's, Rose's, Camby's, McGrady's anywhere you'd like, but I think the foundation of legacies is derived from these three players.

Looking back on Toronto's fruitful history, there hasn't been a player we absolutely love and has done great things (consistent championships, Eastern conference finals) for the franchise.

[Xixak]

When it's all said and Done number 17 is going to be in the rafters along with a championship. Y'all can save this comment and look back after a few decades and go "Vince Carter who?"

That would be absolutely dope.

Wouldn't mind seeing #22 up there as well. Whether that's Rudy Gay or Andrew Wiggins lol

[OldSchool]

Actually ... a lot.

He is representative of a franchise that was, and may still be, run by suits. A group that hasn't let the sport end of the franchise run as it should be - with minimal interference. A player like Bargnani is a perfect example of development under "auspicious" patterns. Carter was just an earlier version, only more talented. What makes AB`s legacy any sort of a legacy, is the fact that 7 years just passed us by.

.

So Bargs was a first pick that never panned out to much - that's what you condsider a legacy? Does Arujuo or Charlie V have lasting legacies too since they never panned out to much? Do you even remember who they are? lol....this silly thread got hijacked by VC topics anyways.

Like LBF said, Hedo got on my nerves way more than Bargs did anyways

[LBF]

I hate Turkoglu more than Bargnani. Put him up there.

[ceez]

I honestly feel kinda indifferent towards Bargs cause he was who he was and at no point was it like he was vindictively not giving it his all, he just always was kinda like that.

Vince set the team YEARS back. The closest we've come to being as good as when he was doing his thing cause he felt like it was when BC got that squad of overacheivers together and even then we all knew they weren't making it past the first round.

[NoPropsneeded]

When it's all said and Done number 17 is going to be in the rafters along with a championship. Y'all can save this comment and look back after a few decades and go "Vince Carter who?"

[RapthoseLeafs]

Dude you didn't read what i wrote. What is it you're trying to ask with this thread? which player had more of an impact to the team right? Just curious, what do you think Bargnani's legacy to the franchise is?

Actually ... a lot.

He is representative of a franchise that was, and may still be, run by suits. A group that hasn't let the sport end of the franchise run as it should be - with minimal interference. A player like Bargnani is a perfect example of development under "auspicious" patterns. Carter was just an earlier version, only more talented. What makes AB`s legacy any sort of a legacy, is the fact that 7 years just passed us by.

Never-the-less, I firmly believe that Vince Carter has, and will for the next number of years, be the most significant legacy in the history of Toronto basketball. He was a talent that brought many fans to the team, and the closest we can say to Super star, if not in talent.

.

Watching the NBA Classic basketball tonight [Nov 21, 1999], Raptors played LA (with Shaq), and Vince's game line was 34 pts, 13 Rbs, 4 assists and a .500 fg%. That was Year 2 - what I'd call the Lost Delusion.

That LA game was the 1999-2000 team's 7th win, to go along with 3 losses. With McGrady as 2nd banana (from his perspective - and rightly so), this Raptor team was Contender in the making.

As such, Vincent Lamar Carter is my vision of a Raptor legacy.
Regardless of how he left.

.

[gametime]

Jersey retirement should be based on playoff success, championships, and hall of fame induction. And for a franchise that hasn't won a championship, as much as we love some of these players, I have a hard time believing any jersey number should qualify for rotation removal. Timing is everything, and it's not the right time... yet.