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This Team Needs to Attack the Rim on Offense

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  • #91
    CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    I view the Raptors as a '34 win team' because that's how many games they won last season.

    Yes some changes have been made, ideally some of which will help improve the team. Yes, given so many young players and new players added after last season's training camp, there should be some organic growth to help improve the team.

    However, we have no idea whether all the changes to the Raptors will result in them being a better, equal or worse team than last year. We also have no idea how their changes will stack-up against the changes that other teams have made, relative to one another. We also have no idea what additional moves will be made to any rosters - via trade, injury, signing, etc... - between now and the end of next season.

    The bottom line is, until the games are played, any assumption as to what record the team will have next season is a complete guess. Obvious, I know. From my perspective, the Raptors are a '34 win team' until proven otherwise, for better or worse. I'm really not sure how anybody could claim anything differently, objectively speaking.
    First bold: I'm not sure how you define organic growth, but by my definition, my list presents more than that.

    Second bold: Exactly! So what's the value or purpose in referring to them as last year's team? Despite whatever knowledge of the game, and these players, any of us thinks we have, we don't know how the improved skills of some, the new blood of others, Casey's new found freedom, and the chemistry of these guys is going to work. But the point being that there's enough difference between this team entering this coming season, from the team that spent the vast majority of time on the floor last year, that using the "34 win team" description is lazy rhetorical nonsense, imo.

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    • #92
      Honestly, I think you're getting really worked up about nothing. I called them a 34 win team because they were a team that won 34 games last year. I could have described them in a dozen different ways - mediocre, average, pedestrian, etc - the point I was trying to make is that they're not very good (and their record until proven otherwise backs that up).

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      • #93
        Whatever turns your crank.

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        • #94
          p00ka wrote: View Post
          First bold: I'm not sure how you define organic growth, but by my definition, my list presents more than that.

          Second bold: Exactly! So what's the value or purpose in referring to them as last year's team? Despite whatever knowledge of the game, and these players, any of us thinks we have, we don't know how the improved skills of some, the new blood of others, Casey's new found freedom, and the chemistry of these guys is going to work. But the point being that there's enough difference between this team entering this coming season, from the team that spent the vast majority of time on the floor last year, that using the "34 win team" description is lazy rhetorical nonsense, imo.
          I consider "organic growth" to be any internal improvement of the current team, whether by individual player development, improved team chemistry, different systems (ie: coaching), etc... I also mentioned the additions to the team, which I thought captured all the points you mentioned.

          I guess for me, it's like a student. If a kid has been a C-D student for several years, but decides to change his attitude and dedicate himself to his studies, he's still a "C-D student' until he actually posts better grades. It doesn't matter that his parents hired a tutor over the summer, or that he's approaching the new school year as a different kid... until the posted results prove otherwise, he'll still be considered to be that same "C-D student". As the saying goes, the proof is in the pudding.

          The one thing I will point out is that your inital post and your reply to me all seem to take the 'best case' internal Raptors scenarios into account, but don't seem to account for the relative improvement of other similar bubble teams. In the case of my example, the ability to improve grades rests entirely on the student. In the NBA, even if all your points do come to fruition for the Raptors, that may still prove to be insufficient to reach the level of the teams that finished above them last season and/or to maintain their advantage over the teams they finished ahead of last year (if the changes/improvements those other teams made this offseason result in a greater net improvement than the positive changes/improvements the Raptors hope to have undergone).
          Last edited by CalgaryRapsFan; Thu Aug 15, 2013, 05:27 PM.

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          • #95
            Fully wrote: View Post
            Honestly, I think you're getting really worked up about nothing. I called them a 34 win team because they were a team that won 34 games last year. I could have described them in a dozen different ways - mediocre, average, pedestrian, etc - the point I was trying to make is that they're not very good (and their record until proven otherwise backs that up).
            I already mentioned to him that you were referring to last year, and instead of just quoting that and saying "yes this is what I was referring to", you decided to continue the argument. Not really a surprise coming from you though.

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            • #96
              jimmie wrote: View Post
              This year's team is just as likely to have a record similar to last year as they are likely to improve significantly.
              Since the team had a winning record after Gay's arrival, a .500 record for the whole season would be great. I definitely think it is within reach, given the strong core and improved role players.

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              • #97
                Matt52 wrote: View Post
                Personally, I think it is a wash.

                Toronto will likely make improvements in some of the areas p00ka noted (not all) but Fully has a point on other teams also improving.

                It is likely a wash because some teams improved (Washington, Cleveland, Detroit, Charlotte) while others took a step back (Milwaukee, Philly, Boston) with others still up in the air (Atlanta).

                What is likely to be in Toronto's advantage is they'll have 8 games that SHOULD be easier versus Boston and Philly.
                Games they must win.....vs Brooklyn likely 1-3 vs New York 2-2 so if can go 6-2 vs Bos and Philly they put themselves in position to make playoffs .

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                • #98
                  p00ka wrote: View Post
                  Having moved from virtual sea level to same elevation as Denver, I can vouch for the effects. There is no question in my mind that it gives the Nuggets an advantage in home games. And many do forget it. That being said, the topic was TALENT, not how many wins to expect.
                  I thought the topic was on trying to replicate the success of another team by employing the same offensive strategy, which clearly worked better in the altitude of Denver (38-3) than in the average NBA arena (19-22) for the team we are trying to mimic?

                  Unless the Raps can play and practice all of their games in Denver-esque altitudes, I don't see how trying to mimic their team is a viable option for us.
                  Heir, Prince of Cambridge

                  If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

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                  • #99
                    I would be interested to see how running an offense which doesn't start or end in an iso situation every play impacts wins. Haven't seen much of that since the Triano days (can't beleive I just said that). Hopefully coach what's his name from the D-League can draw 'em up some go to sets. If Casey can only get them to play D again, I have no doubt we can make it into the playoffs and lose in the first round.

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                    • CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
                      I guess for me, it's like a student. If a kid has been a C-D student for several years, but decides to change his attitude and dedicate himself to his studies, he's still a "C-D student' until he actually posts better grades. It doesn't matter that his parents hired a tutor over the summer, or that he's approaching the new school year as a different kid... until the posted results prove otherwise, he'll still be considered to be that same "C-D student". As the saying goes, the proof is in the pudding.
                      Great analogy. This is exactly how I view the team as well.

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                      • JimiCliff wrote: View Post
                        That's partly why Lowry was so exciting at the beginning of last year -- he was getting to the rim so easily. Then not so much after he went down with that first injury. Not sure if that was because of the injury nagging, or because of some other injury, or because of Casey's muzzle, or some combination of all of them, but it'd be great to see him get back to that.
                        Caseys muzzle...hahaha you mean Casey asking him not to be a ball hogging idiot when his job is to be a PG....hahaha classic.

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                        • Fully wrote: View Post
                          You've got me again.

                          No other team in the East - especially not the ones like Washington, Cleveland, and Detroit who we'll be directly competing with for the playoffs - made any improvements in the offseason, have young talent in their own right who will be improving, or have players on their roster who were motivated to get better this summer.
                          Fantastic post. Its something that ha always bothered me. Guys make the mistake of assuming that all the pother teams go into a deep freeze at years end, hibernate until November.

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