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Is Toronto a better team than it was at the end of last season?

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  • #46
    Rapstor4Life wrote: View Post
    No Augustin is here because he was the best pg available to Ujiri to sign to help the team that wouldnt break the bank... You forget his moves were extremely limited if he could of signed a bigger name he would have and have Stone/Buycks as the project young guard.
    Ah so you were sitting in on the strategy sessions in Ujiri's war-room?

    My personal opinion is that he's setting the team up to tank. If it was his goal to have the most competitive roster possible next year, I think he would have either signed or traded for someone better than Augustin.

    That said, I agree with almost everyone else in this forum: I think we're better now than we were at the end of last season. Marginally better. But better.
    "Stop eating your sushi."
    "I do actually have a pair of Uggs."
    "I've had three cups of green tea tonight. I'm wired. I'm absolutely wired."
    - Jack Armstrong

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    • #47
      JimiCliff wrote: View Post
      Ah so you were sitting in on the strategy sessions in Ujiri's war-room?

      My personal opinion is that he's setting the team up to tank. If it was his goal to have the most competitive roster possible next year, I think he would have either signed or traded for someone better than Augustin.

      That said, I agree with almost everyone else in this forum: I think we're better now than we were at the end of last season. Marginally better. But better.
      Augustin is likely our 3rd string PG. He was signed for 1 year $1.2M. I don't think his presence has any bearing on the competitiveness of the roster, nor does it indicate a tank job. Augustin was just the best PG available that would take 1 year $1.2M.

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      • #48
        The team is pretty much the same(as strong) as last year. Apparent holes have been filled but as always, new holes will appear.

        Augustin's emergence as a solid starting PG will make way for a Lowry trade. Just a prediction.
        Attitude Is A Choice.

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        • #49
          caccia wrote: View Post
          As a restricted free agent, Hansbrough was scheduled to make $4.1 million with the Pacers. That is nearly a $1 million pay cut. He and his agent convinced Indiana to revoke the offer so he could get playing time.
          I read that the Pacers yanked the qualifying offer because they didn't want to give him $4 million after they re-signed David West.

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          • #50
            Primer wrote: View Post
            Augustin is likely our 3rd string PG. He was signed for 1 year $1.2M. I don't think his presence has any bearing on the competitiveness of the roster, nor does it indicate a tank job. Augustin was just the best PG available that would take 1 year $1.2M.
            I don't think that the signing of Augustin himself indicates a tank job, but I think the combination of the Buycks/Augustin signings at least suggests that Masai would rather be bad than good next year. Again: I'm sure that he could have found a better backup PG that either of them if that had been his goal.
            "Stop eating your sushi."
            "I do actually have a pair of Uggs."
            "I've had three cups of green tea tonight. I'm wired. I'm absolutely wired."
            - Jack Armstrong

            Comment


            • #51
              JimiCliff wrote: View Post
              I don't think that the signing of Augustin himself indicates a tank job, but I think the combination of the Buycks/Augustin signings at least suggests that Masai would rather be bad than good next year. Again: I'm sure that he could have found a better backup PG that either of them if that had been his goal.
              I sort of looked at those signing as he wants to stay the same. They're definitely not worse than JL3 are they?

              It's the staying the same part that's a bit frustrating for me. Either get better or get worse, but don't stay the same if the same isn't resulting in wins. Perhaps he wants to be really careful about the moves he makes, or perhaps he just wants to invest in good short term contracts or perhaps he just wants to clean up the mess that was left for him by BC. It's just a long way from the talk about how MLSE was willing to be big spenders and all the hype that came with that frame of mind and the signing of TL and MU. Seemed like it was full speed ahead and then we just came to a dead stop.

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              • #52
                JimiCliff wrote: View Post
                I don't think that the signing of Augustin himself indicates a tank job, but I think the combination of the Buycks/Augustin signings at least suggests that Masai would rather be bad than good next year. Again: I'm sure that he could have found a better backup PG that either of them if that had been his goal.
                Mediumcore wrote: View Post
                I sort of looked at those signing as he wants to stay the same. They're definitely not worse than JL3 are they?

                It's the staying the same part that's a bit frustrating for me. Either get better or get worse, but don't stay the same if the same isn't resulting in wins. Perhaps he wants to be really careful about the moves he makes, or perhaps he just wants to invest in good short term contracts or perhaps he just wants to clean up the mess that was left for him by BC. It's just a long way from the talk about how MLSE was willing to be big spenders and all the hype that came with that frame of mind and the signing of TL and MU. Seemed like it was full speed ahead and then we just came to a dead stop.
                I don't think it's any kind of sign he wants to be bad, nor should anybody feel he's doing it to stay the same. I think it's actually pretty clear that he signed these guys to fit 3 criteria:

                - the primary one being what he has stated, which is that he wants to see what the core guys are like this year, both physically and mentally, and their fit within the systems implemented by the coaches.
                - in line with his stated "not making any big/rash moves until he has a better feel for what's there now", and he knows this isn't a contender as it stands, keep within budget of not paying luxury tax. These guys are on 1 year, cheap deals that accomplish that.
                - young guys (DJ is still only 25) with some potential, not to be all-stars, but solid bench guys

                He's not going to go wild and spend much more for better, when his plan is to wait and see what he wants as his building blocks for much bigger goals.
                Last edited by p00ka; Fri Aug 30, 2013, 11:20 AM.

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                • #53
                  Overall I think the raps are better than they were at the end of last year, compared to themselves. Compared to the rest of the conference they are the same, or slightly better or slightly worse.
                  "They're going to have to rename the whole conference after us: Toronto Raptors 2014-2015 Northern Conference Champions" ~ ezzbee Dec. 2014

                  "I guess I got a little carried away there" ~ ezzbee Apr. 2015

                  "We only have one rule on this team. What is that rule? E.L.E. That's right's, E.L.E, and what does E.L.E. stand for? EVERYBODY LOVE EVERYBODY. Right there up on the wall, because this isn't just a basketball team, this is a lifestyle. ~ Jackie Moon

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                  • #54
                    Are they better than the end of last season? I would venture to say yes. I think people are underestimating the synergistic effect that these moves will have on the play of the team. Sure Hansborough, Novak, and Augustin are not individually great players. But they each add something important to the squad that will open up opportunities for everyone else.

                    For example, last year Amir was the only player of the team that would be considered a hustle player who can also make an impact on the game (Acy made little impact). When he came off the floor, there was a noticeable drop in movement and aggression under the basket. Now, Hansborough can come in when Amir sits and provide that same energy. So Amir won't have to do it all on his own. This is a big deal because (a) Amir won't wear out, (b) second unit doesn't see a big drop off in this facet, and (c)Amir won't wear out (can't emphasize the importance of this enough)

                    Novak will provide what Bargs was supposed to provide last year, which is a stretch "big" who is an actual threat. This will hopefully extend the defence and provide real lanes for Rudy, DD, and Lowry to get to the basket.

                    Of course, we have all been saying this since the transactions took place, but what people are not appreciating is that these players do more for the team than what their individual talent brings. In a vacuum, these players are not better than most other players at their position, but when coupled with the squad that was already in place, they are highly impactful.

                    I think that the whole is greater than the sum of its parts with this squad. I also think that basketball can be played with the same beauty as soccer. I would much rather see a true team come together and play with seemingly one brain (Spurs anyone?), than a collection of individual talent taking turns going one on all. This seems to be the MO of Masai, and I am seeing the shape of this team coming together in that mold.
                    Welp, that sucked.

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                    • #55
                      Mediumcore wrote: View Post
                      I sort of looked at those signing as he wants to stay the same. They're definitely not worse than JL3 are they?

                      It's the staying the same part that's a bit frustrating for me. Either get better or get worse, but don't stay the same if the same isn't resulting in wins. Perhaps he wants to be really careful about the moves he makes, or perhaps he just wants to invest in good short term contracts or perhaps he just wants to clean up the mess that was left for him by BC. It's just a long way from the talk about how MLSE was willing to be big spenders and all the hype that came with that frame of mind and the signing of TL and MU. Seemed like it was full speed ahead and then we just came to a dead stop.
                      You can't get worse than JL3. But you also can't get worse than Augustin or Buycks. All of these players are bottom of the barrel NBA guards. I suppose you could argue that Augustin/Buycks are an improvement on JL3 because they're actually point guards, but I'm not even sure how much that matters on this team, given how much of our offence is run through our wings.
                      "Stop eating your sushi."
                      "I do actually have a pair of Uggs."
                      "I've had three cups of green tea tonight. I'm wired. I'm absolutely wired."
                      - Jack Armstrong

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        @pooka - I agree. Ujiri wasn't planning to tank with the role players he signed - it seems pretty clear that his main intention was to maintain as much flexibility as possible so that he can decide what he wants to do when he sees how this season plays out. So he got players on extremely short contracts for low dollar figures. That he managed to that AND get young guys with NBA experience is pretty incredible. BC would have locked these guys up for 4 years at $4 mil/per.
                        "We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard

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                        • #57
                          Would LOVE to hear an interview with Colangelo on his thoughts on Ujiri's offseason....

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                          • #58
                            JimiCliff wrote: View Post
                            You can't get worse than JL3. But you also can't get worse than Augustin or Buycks. All of these players are bottom of the barrel NBA guards. I suppose you could argue that Augustin/Buycks are an improvement on JL3 because they're actually point guards, but I'm not even sure how much that matters on this team, given how much of our offence is run through our wings.
                            i never understood why people think every god damn player on our team needs to score 30ppg, otherwise trade them.

                            we have augustine to the pass ball. hansborough to grab rebounds. novak to drop threes. fields to be the 4th man and does a little bit of everything. what the hell else do you expect a bench to do.

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                            • #59
                              JL3 wasn't really the back up last year either. He was a third stringer getting spot duty until they moved Calderon, and even then it's not like he just stepped into Jose's role. They upped Lowry's minutes and Lucas time-shared with Telfair a lot down the stretch. So yes, it's true that the point guard spot has marginally improved since the end of last season, but it's actually down quite a bit from a year ago.

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                              • #60
                                p00ka wrote: View Post
                                I don't think it's any kind of sign he wants to be bad, nor should anybody feel he's doing it to stay the same. I think it's actually pretty clear that he signed these guys to fit 3 criteria:

                                - the primary one being what he has stated, which is that he wants to see what the core guys are like this year, both physically and mentally, and their fit within the systems implemented by the coaches.
                                - in line with his stated "not making any big/rash moves until he has a better feel for what's there now", and he knows this isn't a contender as it stands, keep within budget of not paying luxury tax. These guys are on 1 year, cheap deals that accomplish that
                                .
                                - young guys (DJ is still only 25) with some potential, not to be all-stars, but solid bench guys

                                He's not going to go wild and spend much more for better, when his plan is to wait and see what he wants as his building blocks for much bigger goals.
                                Like I said, he's staying the same

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