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Possible trade with Cleveland after tempers flare and bad start?

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  • Possible trade with Cleveland after tempers flare and bad start?

    Just wondering I came across an article on RealGm with regards to the cavs having a lot of internal issues. I know this year isn't looking too good and Im not a big fan of tanking but I guess if we are "rebuilding" (overused word with the raptors) then I guess we could reach out to the Cavs who are looking to contend. They have some big pieces that we could utilize, Tristan Thompson being one of them. I know we cant get a trade going there for lowry but what about Gay? As well yesterdays game, Chicago vs Raptors I think Derozan was trying to make a statement because the Bulls are in need of a scorer off the bench and in the 2 position. He might be traded there as well.

    http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap...s-Only-Meeting

  • #2
    I have little interest in Thompson despite the passport. Big numbers on a shit team with poor efficiency. Does sound like a Raptor, though, but I believe they are trying to change that image.

    Bennett is scary. I'd take a flier on him though.... mainly due to the passport.

    What I'd want from Cleveland is the Memphis 2015 pick, 2014 Orlando 2nd rd pick, and Bynum's contract.

    Bynum's contract could be flipped again or draft night the Raptors could take on some bad contracts for picks (deals have to be completed July 10/11th though).

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    • #3
      Matt52 wrote: View Post
      I have little interest in Thompson despite the passport. Big numbers on a shit team with poor efficiency. Does sound like a Raptor, though, but I believe they are trying to change that image.

      Bennett is scary. I'd take a flier on him though.... mainly due to the passport.

      What I'd want from Cleveland is the Memphis 2015 pick, 2014 Orlando 2nd rd pick, and Bynum's contract.

      Bynum's contract could be flipped again or draft night the Raptors could take on some bad contracts for picks (deals have to be completed July 10/11th though).
      Can Cleveland trade their 2014 1st?

      I could definitely see them being willing to move that.

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      • #4
        Nosike wrote: View Post
        Can Cleveland trade their 2014 1st?

        I could definitely see them being willing to move that.
        If it could be had, absolutely! Sign me up.

        Don't think it is happening though.

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        • #5
          Cleveland can trade any pick they want to trade. They have all their own picks, plus:

          A. Sacramento's first-rounder this year (protected 1-12 this year, 1-10 through 2017 and if not dealt by 2017 becomes Sacramento's 2017 second-rounder instead)
          B. Memphis' second-rounder this year
          C. Orlando's second-rounder this year
          D. Miami's first-rounder in 2015 (protected 1-10 in 2015/16, unprotected 2017)
          E. Memphis' first-rounder in 2015 (protected 1-5 and 15-30 in 2015/16, 1-5 in 2017-18, unprotected in 2019)
          F. Portland's second-rounders in 2015 and 2016

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          • #6
            In terms of what we can reasonably get from Cleveland: probably we're looking at trading Rudy for Bynum and incentives to make us do that.

            Bennett is the most obvious piece Cleveland will likely give up and we should take him: his horrible start is probably not indicative of his true level because A) he's playing on a bad team that's falling apart, B) he's coming back from a serious shoulder injury and dealing with asthma, and C) he never expected to be a #1 pick. Playing in Toronto could well rejuvenate him because the fans will cheer for him regardless of anything else.

            Of course, the bright side of Bennett is that he's not much sweetener presently by himself, so we could probably get a pick as well. Cleveland's 2014 first-rounder, at this point, is probably only going to be dealt on a protected basis because the team is still pretty bad - figure at minimum 1-10 protection, more likely lottery protection. The Miami/Memphis first-rounders are more likely to be dealt because they have lower value. But a pick is a pick. In place of a pick, Sergei Karasev is a gamble prospect but not the worst option we could take.

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            • #7
              The thing about Cleveland is they effed up in the draft the last couple of years.

              2011 they took Irving 1st overall. Great pick. But then they took Thompson 4th overall. Valanciunas should've been the pick there. What's a 1 year wait really?

              2012 they took Waiters over DRUMMOND and BARNES. Comical.

              2013 they took Bennett 1st overall. Can't really say its a bad pick because this year's draft class is so bad. But they should've took a SF like Otto Porter instead of ANOTHER PF or just trade the pick for an established veteran player.
              Last edited by The Great One; Sat Nov 16th, 2013, 11:02 PM.
              Mamba Mentality

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              • #8
                magoon wrote: View Post
                In terms of what we can reasonably get from Cleveland: probably we're looking at trading Rudy for Bynum and incentives to make us do that.

                Bennett is the most obvious piece Cleveland will likely give up and we should take him: his horrible start is probably not indicative of his true level because A) he's playing on a bad team that's falling apart, B) he's coming back from a serious shoulder injury and dealing with asthma, and C) he never expected to be a #1 pick. Playing in Toronto could well rejuvenate him because the fans will cheer for him regardless of anything else.

                Of course, the bright side of Bennett is that he's not much sweetener presently by himself, so we could probably get a pick as well. Cleveland's 2014 first-rounder, at this point, is probably only going to be dealt on a protected basis because the team is still pretty bad - figure at minimum 1-10 protection, more likely lottery protection. The Miami/Memphis first-rounders are more likely to be dealt because they have lower value. But a pick is a pick. In place of a pick, Sergei Karasev is a gamble prospect but not the worst option we could take.
                I think Grit and Grind is dead in Memphis.

                It is early, could be wrong, but with Randolph due $17M next year I don't know how long he stays in Memphis and any trade is not bringing back fair value due to his age and contract.

                That 2015 pick could easily be a 9-12 pick in my opinion.

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                • #9
                  TRex wrote: View Post
                  The thing about Cleveland is they effed up in the draft the last couple of years.

                  2011 they took Irving 1st overall. Great pick. But then they took Thompson 4th overall. Valanciunas should've been the pick there. What's a 1 year wait really?

                  2012 they took Waiters over DRUMMOND and BARNES. Comical.

                  2013 they took Bennett 1st overall. Can't really say its a bad pick because this year's draft class is so bad. But they should've took a SF like Otto Porter instead of ANOTHER PF.
                  Yeah. The Waiters pick was especially random. You really don't need a SG who likes to have the ball in his hands when you have Irving. If they were scared of Drummond, Barnes made so much sense. I keep thinking they could either have Irving-Val-Barnes (or even still with Thompson), or Irving-Thompson-Drummond, and both those trios are a better core than Irving-Thompson-Waiters.

                  As for this past draft, I thought they would just admit a mistake and draft either Oladipo or McLemore to replace Waiters, and trade Waiters away. Or barring that, draft Porter and give him a shot at SF.
                  Last edited by white men can't jump; Sat Nov 16th, 2013, 11:18 PM.

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                  • #10
                    I just hope if a deal is made with Cleveland, that they can pry more than one asset away. Basically I hope Cleveland gets desperate and stupid.

                    Some combos I'd like
                    -Karasev + 1st rounder, present or future
                    -Bennett + Karasev
                    -Thompson + 2nd rounder (s)
                    -Bennett + 2nd rounder (s)
                    -Any combination of multiple picks with at least one 1st rounder

                    On their own, I'd probably be ok with either Thompson or Bennett. Both intrigue me for different reasons.
                    Last edited by white men can't jump; Sat Nov 16th, 2013, 11:17 PM.

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                    • #11
                      If the raptors had a realistic chances of getting Lebron James in free agency, would any of you pass on that chance in order to acquire Rudy Gay ?

                      The honest answer is NO.

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                      • #12
                        Dino4life wrote: View Post
                        If the raptors had a realistic chances of getting Lebron James in free agency, would any of you pass on that chance in order to acquire Rudy Gay ?

                        The honest answer is NO.
                        There are other questions that we don't know the answer to, and neither does Cleveland:

                        Does Cleveland actually have a realistic chance at landing LeBron, or has this all been played up way too much in the media?

                        The answer is we don't know. I don't see why LeBron would go back there necessarily. They would have to prove that they're a pretty good team without him, which they are far from doing. Miami can keep their big 3 together if those guys want to stay together. They're a proven winner, and have a chance to 3peat this year. If they do that, it's hard to see LeBron leaving, even if he opts out to sign a new contract.

                        Another question is will Rudy Gay opt out?

                        Popular theory is he will as long as he has a decent season. If Cleveland is aiming for the playoffs, that could help his cause. He can switch teams, and possibly help a team make the playoffs. That won't hurt his value, and is more incentive to opt out. In the end it may not hinder Cleveland's pursuit of LeBron if he opts out.

                        *It should be noted in regards to LeBron and Cleveland that he really needs to repair his image in relation to how he left that city. Just having it float around out there that he might consider them is good for his continued damage control.
                        Last edited by white men can't jump; Sat Nov 16th, 2013, 11:45 PM.

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                        • #13
                          white men can't jump wrote: View Post
                          There are other questions that we don't know the answer to, and neither does Cleveland:

                          Does Cleveland actually have a realistic chance at landing LeBron, or has this all been played up way too much in the media?

                          The answer is we don't know. I don't see why LeBron would go back there necessarily. They would have to prove that they're a pretty good team without him, which they are far from doing. Miami can keep their big 3 together if those guys want to stay together. They're a proven winner, and have a chance to 3peat this year. If they do that, it's hard to see LeBron leaving, even if he opts out to sign a new contract.

                          Another question is will Rudy Gay opt out?

                          Popular theory is he will as long as he has a decent season. If Cleveland is aiming for the playoffs, that could help his cause. He can switch teams, and possibly help a team make the playoffs. That won't hurt his value, and is more incentive to opt out. In the end it may not hinder Cleveland's pursuit of LeBron if he opts out.

                          *It should be noted in regards to LeBron and Cleveland that he really needs to repair his image in relation to how he left that city. Just having it float around out there that he might consider them is good for his continued damage control.
                          You're completely right but it doesn't change anything, i said a realistic chance, and that they do. I personally think he stays in miami, but Cleveland is definitely #2.
                          Banking on Rudy Gay turning away his 19 million option is much more of a long shot, possible but not realistic unless he hates cleveland in which case why would you get him in the first place if you hope he doesn't fit in ?

                          Anyway you look at it, getting Rudy Gay is not worth the trouble for cleveland.

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                          • #14
                            Dino4life wrote: View Post
                            You're completely right but it doesn't change anything, i said a realistic chance, and that they do. I personally think he stays in miami, but Cleveland is definitely #2.
                            Banking on Rudy Gay turning away his 19 million option is much more of a long shot, possible but not realistic unless he hates cleveland in which case why would you get him in the first place if you hope he doesn't fit in ?

                            Anyway you look at it, getting Rudy Gay is not worth the trouble for cleveland.
                            I actually think it's very likely Rudy opts out. It hinges on 2 things in my opinion:
                            -That he individually has a bounceback season
                            -That his team is at least close to the playoffs

                            I mean, he even fixed his eyesight, which had apparently been a problem for awhile. That's something you do because you're worried it will affect your value (even he dismisses the impact on his game). WHy do that now? Because he can't wait til next summer in case he opts out, which I think is his plan A. Sign a new long-term deal as soon as possible, before his value declines, be it because of his own deterioration or just because of how many other strong SFs there are out there (about to be at least 2 more good ones next year).

                            And then it's still Cleveland. They still struggle to attract free agents. And don't anybody bring up Andrew Bynum. If they miss LeBron, they need a backup plan. If they can sell Rudy on Cleveland now, and see if he works with their team, it could be an option the parties revisit in the summer. And it might be an option Rudy wouldn't consider without the trial.

                            I totally understand the "they don't want to jeopardize their chance at LeBron" rationale. I just think they're being a bit stupidly hopeful. I mean, there's even a minor positive where if a team with Rudy and Kyrie makes the playoffs, you can sell LeBron on "imagine if we had you instead of Rudy". If Cleveland has another year winning around 30 games, not sure LeBron will really consider them, realistically.

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                            • #15
                              Word is there was a fight or something with Waiters at the center of it all, I think they made him inactive the last couple games too.

                              Honestly I'd take Waiters. I like him a lot. He's not the greatest shooter but he gets to the rim and you need that at the end of games. I think his real value is as a sixth man you unleash and let him have at 'er.
                              @sweatpantsjer

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