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  • Trading with Chicago

    We've been talking about potential trade partners for Kyle; with Derrick Rose tearing his meniscus and likely to miss most of the season, I think Chicago has to be considered a serious potential trade partner now. They have far too much talent to tank - two of Noah, Deng, Boozer and Butler will most likely get you to the playoffs in the East by themselves and Chicago has all four, plus they have Mike Dunleavy, Taj Gibson and Kirk Hinrich, capable backups (and in Gibson's case a near-certain future starter). Hell, Chicago didn't have Rose last year and they still won 45 games.

    But with Derrick Rose out again, they don't have a starting point guard, and they need one. The one problem with trade scenarios for Kyle has always been that there weren't any competitive teams that needed a starting PG. Well: now there is, and moreover it's one that has a couple of first-round picks this year (their own, plus Charlotte's top-8 protected - and I think there's very good odds Charlotte's pick doesn't fall into protection this year).

    I'm thinking something simple: Lowry for Marquis Teague and a first-round pick. But there's room to expand on that if need be.

  • #2
    That would be a sweet deal. Don't know if Chicago is stupid enough to give up that Charlotte pick. They are guaranteed to get a very good player in this years stacked draft.

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    • #3
      NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post
      That would be a sweet deal. Don't know if Chicago is stupid enough to give up that Charlotte pick. They are guaranteed to get a very good player in this years stacked draft.
      I said a first-round pick. Chicago would presumably trade whichever they figure is likely to be worse, which is probably their own (probably going to go in the 18-22 range) rather than Charlotte's (probably going to go in between 12-17).

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      • #4
        magoon wrote: View Post
        We've been talking about potential trade partners for Kyle; with Derrick Rose tearing his meniscus and likely to miss most of the season, I think Chicago has to be considered a serious potential trade partner now. They have far too much talent to tank - two of Noah, Deng, Boozer and Butler will most likely get you to the playoffs in the East by themselves and Chicago has all four, plus they have Mike Dunleavy, Taj Gibson and Kirk Hinrich, capable backups (and in Gibson's case a near-certain future starter). Hell, Chicago didn't have Rose last year and they still won 45 games.

        But with Derrick Rose out again, they don't have a starting point guard, and they need one. The one problem with trade scenarios for Kyle has always been that there weren't any competitive teams that needed a starting PG. Well: now there is, and moreover it's one that has a couple of first-round picks this year (their own, plus Charlotte's top-8 protected - and I think there's very good odds Charlotte's pick doesn't fall into protection this year).

        I'm thinking something simple: Lowry for Marquis Teague and a first-round pick. But there's room to expand on that if need be.
        Oh my God I would absolutely love this deal. Chicago would absolutely prefer to keep competing and want to avoid adding any long-term salary.

        But it's not even close to balancing on the salary scales. Not sure how to make it work. Also it might be tough to get that Charlotte pick, but probably not too hard to get theirs. It somehow looks like a really difficult trade to actually make happen.

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        • #5
          NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post
          That would be a sweet deal. Don't know if Chicago is stupid enough to give up that Charlotte pick. They are guaranteed to get a very good player in this years stacked draft.
          I'd be fine with either pick. Like you said, any two picks in this first round is very VERY nice to have.
          Twitter - @thekid_it

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          • #6
            I could get behind this
            @sweatpantsjer

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            • #7
              I don't see how a trade can work with Chicago. Lowry makes $6M and Chicago is over the luxury cap. They would have to return at least $5M in salary back, and I don't see them giving up either Rose, Boozer, Deng, Noah or Gibson plus a first rounder.

              Hinrich makes $4M so they would have to include another asset plus a first rounder? Seems like a bit much.

              If Chicago is willing to give up Deng, you could do a Deng+1st rounder for DD+Lowry type of trade. Where Toronto flips Deng to another team (like Cleveland for example). But then would Chicago give up Deng and a first rounder for a PG rental? DD would be a prize but Butler is doing a pretty good job for them.

              I would definitely on board for a deal, but with Chicago's cap situation and their roster of salaries I think it will be difficult to pry away a first round pick.

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              • #8
                planetmars wrote: View Post
                If Chicago is willing to give up Deng, you could do a Deng+1st rounder for DD+Lowry type of trade. Where Toronto flips Deng to another team (like Cleveland for example). But then would Chicago give up Deng and a first rounder for a PG rental? DD would be a prize but Butler is doing a pretty good job for them.
                A few points.

                1. Chicago has been quietly shopping Deng for some time now because they can't afford to re-sign him at his current rate (well, they can, but they won't because their owner is a cheapskate).
                2. I don't think Chicago trades Deng just for Lowry. I think they need one more player to make it work. Probably that player is Amir (assuming it's a simple two-team trade) or possibly Landry. If we're involving a third team - say, Sacramento, just for giggles - it probably comes out something like

                TO SACRAMENTO: Deng
                TO CHICAGO: Lowry, Jimmer Fredette
                TO TORONTO: John Salmons, Chicago 1st

                That works money-wise. Chicago gets a starting PG and a serviceable wing to replace Deng, who's going away next season anyway. Sacramento's new ownership wants to compete and a Deng-Boogie-Mbah a Moute frontcourt is pretty damn terrifying. Toronto is a seller in this trade but we're getting a pick and since Salmons' last year is a team option we're actually clearing even more money next year.
                Last edited by magoon; Sun Nov 24th, 2013, 12:19 AM.

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                • #9
                  You know which team might have an interest on Lowry? Warriors.

                  Warriors need a backup PG pretty bad. They have no depth in that position.

                  Last night for an example. Curry didn't play because of an injury. Iggy played the point for them, but then he got hurt. You know who replaced him? Kent Bazemore.
                  Mamba Mentality

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                  • #10
                    TRex wrote: View Post
                    You know which team might have an interest on Lowry? Warriors.

                    Warriors need a backup PG pretty bad. They have no depth in that position.

                    Last night for an example. Curry didn't play because of an injury. Iggy played the point for them, but then he got hurt. You know who replaced him? Kent Bazemore.
                    But what would they give up? They don't really have any 1st rd picks to offer. There's no way they part with a quality young player like Thompson or Barnes. They definitely could use some insurance at PG, but what can they offer?

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                    • #11
                      magoon wrote: View Post
                      A few points.

                      1. Chicago has been quietly shopping Deng for some time now because they can't afford to re-sign him at his current rate (well, they can, but they won't because their owner is a cheapskate).
                      2. I don't think Chicago trades Deng just for Lowry. I think they need one more player to make it work. Probably that player is Amir (assuming it's a simple two-team trade) or possibly Landry. If we're involving a third team - say, Sacramento, just for giggles - it probably comes out something like

                      TO SACRAMENTO: Deng
                      TO CHICAGO: Lowry, Jimmer Fredette
                      TO TORONTO: John Salmons, Chicago 1st

                      That works money-wise. Chicago gets a starting PG and a serviceable wing to replace Deng, who's going away next season anyway. Sacramento's new ownership wants to compete and a Deng-Boogie-Mbah a Moute frontcourt is pretty damn terrifying. Toronto is a seller in this trade but we're getting a pick and since Salmons' last year is a team option we're actually clearing even more money next year.
                      @sweatpantsjer

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                      • #12
                        Blockbuster trade with Chicago and Sacramento

                        http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=m4tts22

                        Bulls get Marcus Thornton, John Salmons, Amir Johnson and Kyle Lowry.

                        Kings get Rudy Gay and Marquis Teague.

                        Raptors get Carlos Boozer, Luol Deng and Greivis Vasquez.

                        Why Chicago? They get a starting caliber point guard to replac D-Rose. They cut ties with Boozer and Deng. They get a new good and young post player in Amir. They get a starting caliber SG in Thornton and a serviceable backup in Salmons, whose contract ends at the end of the season (team option).

                        Why Sacramento? They get a borderline star player in Rudy Gay. They get a promising PG. They let Isaiah Thomas run the point and Mclemore be the starting SG. They cut ties with Salmons and Thornton.

                        Why Toronto? They get a pass first PG. They get two star players; a true starting PF and a SF that will fit more than Rudy Gay.

                        Valanciunas/Gray
                        Boozer/Hansbrough/Acy
                        Deng/Fields/NovakDaye
                        DeRozan/Ross/Stone
                        Vasquez/Buycks/Augustin

                        I'd love to see it happen.

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                        • #13
                          magoon wrote: View Post
                          TO SACRAMENTO: Deng
                          TO CHICAGO: Lowry, Jimmer Fredette
                          TO TORONTO: John Salmons, Chicago 1st
                          Won't work. God doesn't want John Salmons to play in Toronto.....

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                          • #14
                            planetmars wrote: View Post
                            I don't see how a trade can work with Chicago. Lowry makes $6M and Chicago is over the luxury cap. They would have to return at least $5M in salary back, and I don't see them giving up either Rose, Boozer, Deng, Noah or Gibson plus a first rounder.

                            Hinrich makes $4M so they would have to include another asset plus a first rounder? Seems like a bit much.

                            If Chicago is willing to give up Deng, you could do a Deng+1st rounder for DD+Lowry type of trade. Where Toronto flips Deng to another team (like Cleveland for example). But then would Chicago give up Deng and a first rounder for a PG rental? DD would be a prize but Butler is doing a pretty good job for them.

                            I would definitely on board for a deal, but with Chicago's cap situation and their roster of salaries I think it will be difficult to pry away a first round pick.
                            Bulls were shopping Boozer last year.....what about Gay for Boozer knowing that Deng will be gone if no trade and Bulls can dump Boozer's contract and keep Gay.

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                            • #15
                              psrs1 wrote: View Post
                              Bulls were shopping Boozer last year.....what about Gay for Boozer knowing that Deng will be gone if no trade and Bulls can dump Boozer's contract and keep Gay.
                              Boozer made sense last year when the Raptors were trying to trade Bargnani. Before NY swooped in, I thought the only real possibility to get something of value for Bargnani would be to trade him for Carlos. Now I don't think it makes sense. Toronto needs flexibility, and I think MU is trying to obtain that.. at least with the minimal moves he made this past summer (with short term contracts and team options for next year). Boozer has 2 years guaranteed on his salary ($27M left). Gay only has this year and could opt out. Toronto also has 2 quality PF's in Amir and Tyler. Do they really need to add a 3rd in the mix? Even if the deal was Lowry+Fields for Boozer and a pick, it makes it difficult to keep Boozer's contract next season if they wanted to make the team better (for the retool camp) or to blow it up and rebuild (for the tank camp).

                              If the goal is to just get their pick (or Charlotte's) then you have to wonder why Chicago just doesn't amnesty Boozer in the summer to free up their cap space commitments and keep both picks and try to resign Deng. Chicago is cheap, but i think they'd prefer to pay the guy to go away then to go into luxury tax again and pay the repeater penalties.

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