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On Valanciunas - The blasphemy thread

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  • On Valanciunas - The blasphemy thread

    Oh heavens, oh no.
    The time has come.

    Let's get a few things straight before the bloodbath:
    This is not a "this is what I would do as a GM" thread.
    This is not a malicious or critical thread, in respect to performance.
    This is simply a crystal ball thread:

    I don't think Valanciunas is going to become the guy that fans want him to be.

    There.
    I said it.

    I was planning to explain my reasoning in detail, but I'll reduce it to one thing for now:
    I don't like his basketball instincts.
    I don't like his creativity on his offense, and his reads on defense.
    I don't like what I'm seeing from his mind - that can evolve, but he should be further along based on the expectations laid out for him, and that's intrinsic.
    That's not coached - that's who he is.

    Nevermind all the details of his situation, I'm talking about one thing:
    Whether Valanciunas has the potential to be a franchise player.

    I don't see it.

    He could still be a very good center.
    There's room in the NBA for a top 5 center.
    But I don't think he's going to be dominant.
    I don't think he's going to be game-changing on a regular basis.
    I don't think he can put a team on his back.

    Okay, hate me now.

  • #2
    I agree with you hahaha.
    Personally I feel he can be an effective two-way center, who can positively impact both ends of the floor. Whether he becomes a franchise player or not, my answer is maybe. But in my mind I feel he can be a very good player and a key piece to our team's success if we choose to keep him.

    EDIT: I also love his sense of humor. Bahahaha
    OG is our king

    Comment


    • #3
      Well I don't think many people can judge about how you think, but I think we should let this kid to grow. He's still young and have enough potential to be the top guy on every team's scouting report.

      JV went trough big change in his life. He had to leave Europe and become resident of Canada. Different people, different culture, different language..

      He's an old school center, who have potential to be great defender and as we already know - great offensive player. I'm happy that we have JV. It's so hard to get players like he's and let's not forget one important thing. We're changing culture, we're building championship team and in my opinion JV is start for all this. Either as an asset or our starter.

      JV has a lot of 'problems' in his game, but the only thing I'm worried is his decision making. It's so awful. Everything else will come with the time or else...

      Comment


      • #4
        I was going to write some long post, but what's the point. This is your opinion.

        I disagree with you about Jonas. Think he has pretty good instincts. Think he presses a bit and that causes him to hesitate. Just needs to settle down and relax. Think a lot of it is frustration from how much he seems to be an afterthought on this team, and how he seems to be used as a scapegoat by the coach (and maybe his teammates depending on how you view the Lowry chew out during the Wiz game). Things will get into your head if you constantly feel like you're doing your best to try and help the team, and the team isn't doing its best to try and help you back.

        Still see him as having a very good chance at being a top 5 C in this league, and that's not something you give up on. And the fact that he has great motor and character can't be understated. Jonas has talent and the intangibles you want. Lets see how far he can go. There are very few things that he'd be worth trading for, and to get this out of the way I still would've never considered trading him for James Harden.

        *Oh yeah, and the hope isn't necessarily that he becomes a franchise player, a very select group of a handful of players. I think for position though, sometimes you say something like franchise centre, which usually means that you're probably a top 20-30 player. Maybe top 5 at position, depending on the position. And I think unless you have one of the obvious franchise players, like a LeBron or Durant, then a top tier C is the most valuable thing to have...Okay, so this post was still pretty long.
        Last edited by white men can't jump; Sun Nov 24th, 2013, 01:35 AM.

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        • #5
          Is he a franchise player? No.

          Can he be an all-star? I think so. He is just 21. He is younger in his second season than Hibbert, Al Horford, Joakim Noah were in their rookie years.

          I disagree on the natural instincts. He has shown some incredible passing ability (I would guess he has more assists to DD than vice versa), he has shown some nice rotations on defense (inconsistent but still there), and he has a nose for the ball due to his motor.

          I think there is a similarity between Hibbert in his second year and JV, thus far. Hibbert regressed in his second year and it was a result of Jim O'Brien.

          It is unfortunate that the game JV gets 14 shots his legs looked like he had cinder blocks on them.

          Comment


          • #6
            Shrub wrote: View Post
            Okay, hate me now.
            No hate whatsoever.
            I never thought of JV as a top guy talent either. He is however a more than capable starter on a championship team, with great effort, great attitude, and efficiency.

            Were always reading threads about this guy being the saviors, the franchise guy, or that guy.... but I'm not fond of them because honestly all that is for fans is buying into the NBA's marketing schemes, and using that mindset to then be a filter between what you think you see, and what is really there.

            Truth is, if you want to win, you have to build a solid team from top to bottom. every guy has to fit, pull in the same direction, and basically bust ass. JV is a young man that I feel can do that. He can also get to a point where he is one of the better centers in the NBA, and THAT is pretty valuable.

            So you're right, and you don't deserve hatred, quite the opposite really. Fans need to appreciate JV as a piece, and not as the answer, no one player can be.

            Comment


            • #7
              white men can't jump wrote: View Post
              I was going to write some long post, but what's the point. This is your opinion.

              I disagree with you about Jonas.
              You know, you might want to re-read that original post. I believe you may realize that you are actually very similar in thought on the issue. He's saying the same thing as you man.

              Comment


              • #8
                A question, which player instead of Kyrie Irving would you prefer to pick over JV from that draft if any at all? If the answer is still JV, then we should be happy what we got, it's not like we had 1st overall pick and he must prove he's franchise player. It's us who create these high expectations, and it's not nonsense, however the expectations are exegarated because of his potential and international performances, but at the same time we can find factors which can prove otherwise, such as lack of touches, age, coaching etc. When there will be no factors limiting him, we will be able to evaluate his capabilities, so far we cannot objectively do that.

                Concerning the original thread post, you are too vague, it's not poetry be more specific when you are naming the traits you dislike. You do actually remind me a poet with your lining of thoughts
                Last edited by RandomGuy; Sun Nov 24th, 2013, 07:54 AM.
                Official Pope of the Raptors sponsored by MLSE.

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                • #9
                  There are no factors limiting him. He is being properly coached, his minutes are fair, and he is getting better. Nothing to see here. I think people simply need to temper expectations and be patient.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Craig wrote: View Post
                    There are no factors limiting him. He is being properly coached, his minutes are fair, and he is getting better. Nothing to see here. I think people simply need to temper expectations and be patient.
                    Properly coached you say, you realize that by saying that you imply DC is a good coach? Minutes?
                    34.5
                    14.7 (Playing under Love)
                    32.5
                    33.5
                    27.6

                    These are top five picks and their mpg this season, see any difference? Yes they are quite fair, but here you see an comparison with what would look like even more fair in case you whant to develop the player. It's not like JV is Grays backup, he is the STARTING player.
                    Last edited by RandomGuy; Sun Nov 24th, 2013, 08:08 AM.
                    Official Pope of the Raptors sponsored by MLSE.

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                    • #11
                      There weren't many people in this forum talking about JV being a franchise player, that I can recall. A LOT of people though have talked, from early last season, about him being a top 5 center and that's where I think he will wind up. And a top 5 center, you don't give up on, because the drop off is pretty steep.

                      I think a significant portion of the regression this year is due to frustration, judging from his body language. What he needs more than anything else, at this time, is a coach that can use him in offensive and defensive schemes effectively. I'm not seeing it. How many games in the last half dozen, have we seen the Raptors purposely go to Jonas in the first quarter, and seen him effectively collect 6-8 points in just a few trios down the floor. But it's almost like Casey is simply doing that to set up Gay and DeMar for the next 3 quarters of isolation ball.

                      Matt and many others on this board have been asking "where is the inside/outside game" that would effectively utilize JV's abilities. If the Raptors were actually using any semblance of that style, we would see him scoring more, getting more assists and probably have more pop to his step.

                      I can imagine that some one or more of the assistant coaches are working with JV to expand his offensive moves. I can also imagine how frustrating it must be for him to not be able to use them in a game.

                      He is a keeper and pretty much where I hoped he would be early in his second season. Per 36 minutes he is a 10 and 10 guy right now. Considering how Casey has been using him, and how often his team mates look off him, I consider that outstanding.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I find it ridiculous that anyone can comment on his "decision making" on a team coached by Dwane Casey.

                        Also, "franchise player" is a meaningless title. Chris Bosh was a "franchise player" for us.

                        JV is the best center prospect I've seen in a long time, and seems to have the desire to become better and better. Proper coaching and training is needed.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          is it just me or does jv only know one move...
                          but yea
                          he's not a franchise player
                          we cant build a team around him
                          he will see the allstar game once or twice
                          i rather have him on the bench during crunch time but hey if he gets better (in so many different ways) than maybe just maybe i'll ease up on him
                          his defense is so horrible (ok not that bad but he's bad) players are flying by the kid, he jumps at everything he sees and is pretty slow
                          he's got alot to improve....alot
                          What they got to say now? Nothing they can say now. Mobbin' on the low. Winnin' on the low
                          The city embraced me, made me feel at home. The only difference [between Compton and Toronto] for me is the cold. -DeMar
                          No Where Near the South Side #WeTheNorth

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                          • #14
                            lilmamba_ wrote: View Post
                            is it just me or does jv only know one move...
                            but yea
                            he's not a franchise player
                            we cant build a team around him
                            he will see the allstar game once or twice
                            i rather have him on the bench during crunch time but hey if he gets better (in so many different ways) than maybe just maybe i'll ease up on him
                            his defense is so horrible (ok not that bad but he's bad) players are flying by the kid, he jumps at everything he sees and is pretty slow
                            he's got alot to improve....alot
                            absolutely wrong.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              rocwell wrote: View Post
                              absolutely wrong.
                              dont be hard on her, she's 14 yr old girl, it's emotions and beliefs talking
                              Last edited by RandomGuy; Sun Nov 24th, 2013, 09:46 AM.
                              Official Pope of the Raptors sponsored by MLSE.

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