Game #17: Toronto Raptors 103 - Golden State Warriors 112

[Axel]

I understand your frustration. However, you should remember that Demar is paid to be a scorer. He is a shooting guard. Now some should actually start talking about others who are supposed to be rebounders......*we got one rebound in the whole 4th Quarter vs GSW*.

I can't wait for you guys to start pointing the finger at JV. You want to ship everyone else out so you can put that BIG bullseye on his back (just like you're doing with Demar).

Demar didnt cost us this game. Actually, if you watch closely you'll see that he's usually the player keeping us in these games!

This offence and defence broke and collapsed when it mattered. JV is useless at getting consistent deep positioning and is not good at setting screens (pretty basic stuff for a big guy).

FYI - Drummond had 18 rebounds and 10 points in 22 minutes in their win against Miami. JV gets 6 rebounds, 0 assists and 8 points in 26 minutes against GSW.

Hansborough can't create a shot for himself. Rudy Gay had 0 assists. Kyle had a good game, but couldn't keep track of Curry when it mattered most. Demar left Thompson open too many times and paid the price.

The blame can go around.....and from where i stand - I see a lot more blame for other players who are supposed to be better than they're playing.

No one is laying sole blame on Demar but where were his 3.8 boards yesterday? The best players make key plays in games; a stop, a steal, a rebound, something that stops the floodgates. No one made that play yesterday but the team leaders (which includes Demar) should take the most blame for those situations.

[Axel]

1 more rebound per game brings him into the top 10. If you really think about it, that's not a huge stretch for him to work on in the future.....just saying.

Look - you guys are the only ones saying Demar is a finished product (he is who he is, he won't get better, blah blah blah). Most fans realize he still has areas to improve on. If it makes you feel better to call him out on his weaknesses while ignoring his strengths....then have at it.

1 more isn't a lot, so why doesn't he do it? He's currently 29th. That is below average for a guard.

And what strengths do we ignore? He can score but is neither particularly efficient or proficient. If you aren't elite at one thing you damn well better bring more tricks to the stable.

[CalgaryRapsFan]

I understand your frustration. However, you should remember that Demar is paid to be a scorer. He is a shooting guard. Now some should actually start talking about others who are supposed to be rebounders......*we got one rebound in the whole 4th Quarter vs GSW*.

I can't wait for you guys to start pointing the finger at JV. You want to ship everyone else out so you can put that BIG bullseye on his back (just like you're doing with Demar).

Demar didnt cost us this game. Actually, if you watch closely you'll see that he's usually the player keeping us in these games!

The offence and defence broke and collapsed when it mattered. JV is useless at getting consistent deep positioning and is not good at setting screens (pretty basic stuff for a big guy).

FYI - Drummond had 18 rebounds and 10 points in 22 minutes in their win against Miami. JV gets 6 rebounds, 0 assists and 8 points in 26 minutes against GSW.

Hansborough can't create a shot for himself. Rudy Gay had 0 assists. Kyle had a good game, but couldn't keep track of Curry when it mattered most. Demar left Thompson open too many times and paid the price.

The blame can go around.....and from where i stand - I see a lot more blame for other players who are supposed to be better than they're playing.

I started out that post saying he impressed me in the first half, and I didn't blame DeRozan for anything.

I also don't put DeRozan in the same 'should trade' category as Gay/Lowry/Novak, so I'm hardly pushing for him to be shipped out, even if MU goes ahead with a tank.

However, DeRozan is paid to be a basketball player. Given his salary and role on this team, he should be expected to do a lot more than score. Right now he can't be consistently counted on to do anything but score, and his defense is often so bad that it limits the net impact of his scoring.

[p00ka]

Didn't we just have a thread discussing DD's rebounding prowess, and some people felt we were being too hard....hmmmm...who were they?

Of course this is the key reason they lost hey,,,,,, or is it just about being petty in calling people who support the kid?

That aside, unless it's a big who has one of his primary tasks being that of rebounding, you do understand that rebounding is a team function, right? Would you have had him leaving Thompson alone more out on the 3 pt line, so he could give you the rebounds you want? Until the TEAM collapse in the fourth, and the Curry/Thompson barrage it allowed, he did a great job of containing Thompson as well as chewing up Thompson's supposed defense, but yeah, gloat over your opinion of his rebounding being justified over one game, after 16 games of being improved there too. pfffffffffffft

The people who have zipped up their pants and gone home.

Don't worry though. Next good game by him or Raptors they'll all be back.

My pants aren't zipped. Eat it, petty little one.

[p00ka]

1 more rebound per game brings him into the top 10. If you really think about it, that's not a huge stretch for him to work on in the future.....just saying.

Look - you guys are the only ones saying Demar is a finished product (he is who he is, he won't get better, blah blah blah). Most fans realize he still has areas to improve on. If it makes you feel better to call him out on his weaknesses while ignoring his strengths....then have at it.

it's petty vindictiveness, bordering on pathetic, imo

[CalgaryRapsFan]

Ok ok ok, lets all put on our big-boy pants, zip them up, and show each other a little respect. Cheers!

[special1]

1 more isn't a lot, so why doesn't he do it? He's currently 29th. That is below average for a guard.

And what strengths do we ignore? He can score but is neither particularly efficient or proficient. If you aren't elite at one thing you damn well better bring more tricks to the stable.

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/pl...hooting-guards

Demar is 11th in rebounds per game for shooting guards. Out of 47 players he's 11th best in rebounds per game. That is a fact. No per 36 numbers just fact.

[Axel]

it's petty vindictiveness, bordering on pathetic, imo

How is it petty? Coincidental is perhaps the word you're looking for. We discuss Demar's rebounding, next game he has zero rebounds to contribute to the teams failure to grab boards in a game they had complete control of.

Always so nice to hear from you pooka.

[Axel]

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/pl...hooting-guards

Demar is 11th in rebounds per game for shooting guards. Out of 47 players he's 11th best in rebounds per game. That is a fact. No per 36 numbers just fact.

Nobody quoted per36 numbers. So if he's 11th in SG then that means there are 17 PGs who out rebound him. Still don't see that as a problem? His rank of 11th perhaps speaks more to the weakness of the position that they are getting out rebounded by smaller players.

[Joey]

How do you blow a 27 point lead? Against anybody?

The Raptors came back from the same amount against Detroit a couple years back.
That was the day my crush on Jerryd Bayless began. Dude was en fuego that night.

[p00ka]

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/pl...hooting-guards

Demar is 11th in rebounds per game for shooting guards. Out of 47 players he's 11th best in rebounds per game. That is a fact. No per 36 numbers just fact.

Per 36 numbers is what he was using? So, that 29th amongst Gs includes backups' per 36? Garbage "rank" to support narrative, pffft

[special1]

Nobody quoted per36 numbers. So if he's 11th in SG then that means there are 17 PGs who out rebound him. Still don't see that as a problem? His rank of 11th perhaps speaks more to the weakness of the position that they are getting out rebounded by smaller players.

Wrong again! There are 8 PGs who average more rebounds per game. Look - I know you're not fond of Demar.....BUT do you have to make him look worse? Just tell the truth. Out of 88 eligible players....Demar is currently 19th in rebounding (PG and SGs). If your only counting SGs (which you should because we're comparing him to SGs after all) then he is just outside of the top 10.

The facts show that Demar is actually above average rebounding wise for a shooting guard. There are 30 teams. Demar sits 11th in rebounds per game. Perhaps this perhaps that....blah blah blah.

[special1]

Per 36 numbers is what he was using? So, that 29th amongst Gs includes backups' per 36? Garbage "rank" to support narrative, pffft

I wasn't even using per 36 numbers. It looks like he was. He claims that Demar is below average at rebounding when the numbers show that he's actually above average!! lol They make it too easy.

[p00ka]

Nobody quoted per36 numbers. So if he's 11th in SG then that means there are 17 PGs who out rebound him. Still don't see that as a problem? His rank of 11th perhaps speaks more to the weakness of the position that they are getting out rebounded by smaller players.

Here is a prime example of the misuse of stats to support a narrative.

Instead of height being the judging factor, here's another theory: in today's NBA, there are far more driving PGs than outside shooting ones. The PGs covering them are constantly drawn into the paint, thus being in position to grab rebounds, while most SGs park themselves on the 3 pt line, drawing the SGs that cover them away from the paint. Might that be a slightly bigger factor in more PGs grabbing more rebounds than SGs, or is it about height? Damn, JV should have been eating up 3" vertical old man JO last night, not the other way around.

[special1]

Using per-game numbers to back up a claim is sophistry -- there are much more advanced stats you can use. Derozan doesn't even show up on the page when you reorder the list by RP48, a better number. Rebounding% is on BR, and Derozan is, for example, far behind Fields in this respect. Derozan might be the worst rebounder at his position in the league. He's not much for steals either. He doesn't get many extra possessions for his team.

Except Fields doesn't get any rebounds because he's DNP Coach's decision. Get it? You're talking about guys who don't even get minutes. Who cares how much rebounds they get when they barely see the floor. You can check all the advanced stats you want, i'll stick to actual numbers when we're debating a player's output.