Game #17: Toronto Raptors 103 - Golden State Warriors 112

[special1]

How many minutes are all the other shooting guards getting?

Per game is a shady statistic and does not give the full picture.

I'm of the belief that you earn your minutes. Your production is your production. Per game is only a shady statistic when it doesn't fit your narrative huh?

[p00ka]

slaw nailed it.

I agree with you Keon. However read slaw's post and tell me what p00ka and special1 are arguing is not mind boggling.

Being a bean counter, ignoring context, while talking basketball players, and what they bring, is what's mind boggling

[KeonClark]

Which is the only value in using per36 or per48 numbers when ranking players with as widely different roles as being a 10 MPG bench player, playing limited minute role against other bench guys, and a 39 MPG starting primary scorer. It's like saying my ski boat beats the snot out of an aircraft carrier because it's faster.

True, but there's a lot of 25-30 min guys that would be higher than DD at his minutes. Pretty sure 25-30 minutes each game is enough to know what type of player you are. We're not talking about some guy who get's 2 rebounds per in 3 minutes, it's guys like Ginobili who are averaging like .1 less in 10 less minutes. Pretty obvious who's more productive in using his time.

[p00ka]

Which is why no one used per36 stats in this thread!!!

Your buddy Matt just used per48 stats. You know, the post that keon responded to, and I responded to his.

[Employee]

Im just glad i watched this game and got to be a part of Raptors history.

On a sort of unrelated note: I have a friend who I somehow convinced to be a Raptors fan a couple years ago. After watching last night's game he said he may switch to G-State and yelled a lot. He was also pretty drunk though...

[Axel]

Your buddy Matt just used per48 stats. You know, the post that keon responded to, and I responded to his.

But my stats stand, he's 29th in NBA guards in rebounds per game. He has all the athletic tools and ample opportunity, but he chooses to not rebound (or defend for that matter). 29th and getting out rebounded by Rubio on a daily basis. Heck JR Smith pulls down 4.9 and he plays the exact same position.

[mcHAPPY]

Your buddy Matt just used per48 stats. You know, the post that keon responded to, and I responded to his.

Context p00ka.

Context.

slaw put it in context so much better than I ever could have.... or at least without an essay response:

Matt, everyone knows that getting 5 rebounds in 48 minutes is just as good as getting 5 rebounds in 20 minutes. There is absolutely no difference at all. None whatsoever. Exact same thing. Means the two players are equally good rebounders cause they both get 5 rebounds a game.

[p00ka]

True, but there's a lot of 25-30 min guys that would be higher than DD at his minutes. Pretty sure 25-30 minutes each game is enough to know what type of player you are. We're not talking about some guy who get's 2 rebounds per in 3 minutes, it's guys like Ginobili who are averaging like .1 less in 10 less minutes. Pretty obvious who's more productive in using his time.

As an example of looking at bean counting out of overall context, Ginobli also scores less than half the points in only "10 less minutes". So,,,, what do you think is more valuable to DDs team in that extra 10 minutes: .1 rebounds or 11.5 points?

[special1]

True, but there's a lot of 25-30 min guys that would be higher than DD at his minutes. Pretty sure 25-30 minutes each game is enough to know what type of player you are. We're not talking about some guy who get's 2 rebounds per in 3 minutes, it's guys like Ginobili who are averaging like .1 less in 10 less minutes. Pretty obvious who's more productive in using his time.

Would be / could be....is your argument? Remember when ED Davis would get 10 rebounds in 18 minutes. Give him 28 minutes and he still grabs 10 boards? Giving a player more minutes doesn't guarantee shit.

[enlightenment]

At least this happened.

[Axel]

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/pl...hooting-guards

Demar is 11th in rebounds per game for shooting guards. Out of 47 players he's 11th best in rebounds per game. That is a fact. No per 36 numbers just fact.

Now I know why your stats are BS, you're using the ESPN filter of "qualified", which is removing players like D Wade, Jimmy Butler, JR Smith, James Harden, etc.

[planetmars]

Consistency? You can say that about every single NBA player not named Lebron/Durant/Paul.....

No one is saying that the 24 year old is in his prime or is even a finished product! He HAS been a lot more consistent this year than past years. However, not enough to persuade you guys from saying the same stuff from past years.

I'm just waiting for you to turn on JV. How, at JV's size and ability is he 18th in rebounding at 7.6 rpg for centers? Isn't that below average (30 starting centers)?

Drummond is 2nd in the league in rebounding at 12.5 rpg for centers. Same years in the league.....No excuses. Don't you think its time you focused your attention on someone else? *patiently waiting*

I personally think he's peaked. Most NBA players peak at 24 especially the athletic ones. The question is whether or not he can sustain it. But history tells you that at age 24 is when most NBA players are their most productive and then it goes down hill from there.

If he remains a Raptor I hope he proves me wrong.

[p00ka]

Sad man, sad, that so many raptor fans have become so jaded as to spend so much time going out of their way to downgrade the best player on their team, who is still so young and still showing that he puts in the time and effort to improve on his weaknesses, and is of such high character and commitment, and on such a reasonable contract,,,, when there's so much else to whine and bitch about. waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa, but I want, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaa, I want, I want, I want, I want, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

[slaw]

Your production is your production. Per game is only a shady statistic when it doesn't fit your narrative huh?

Depends what you mean by "production". If I take 20 shots to get 20 points am I as productive as a player who takes 12 shots to get 20 points? The process is very different and process is certainly part of measuring productivity, isn't it?

Looking at PPG, AstPG or RPG tells us something about a player, definitely but those numbers don't tell us much about efficiency, productivity or value. You have to look beyond the box score. I think it's called context or something....

[JimiCliff]

At least this happened.

He even stared him down for a second afterwards!

I watched the start of the first quarter; JV scores 6 points quickly and easily. Then I went to bed.

I wake up, look at the box: JV has 8 points total.

Shaking my damn head.