Debate settled......

[mcHAPPY]

It would appear debate over with only thing left is trading DeRozan Amir and possibly jv

Just to clarify: above comment based on Wolstat's sources that MU is looking to reshape the roster in order to make everyone forget about the previous losing era. I hate to tell you guys but Lowry, DeRozan, Amir, JV, Fields, and Ross are the only Raptors remaining with Bargnani, Gay, Acy, and Gray already traded.

Lowry is going to be gone sooner or later for sure.
DeRozan has been here 5 years.
Amir has been here for 5 years.
Fields has an awful contract and just 1 year left.
JV and Ross are here for just 1 year and on rookie deals.

So based on the above:
Lowry/DD/Amir appear to be bets to be traded if the bold is true.
Fields is not going anywhere due to contract.
JV and Ross might not be tainted enough.

Everyone else on the roster has been brought in by Masai.

[S.R.]

OK, but I think you should consider refraining from ever complaining again about people stirring the pot if this is the kind of post we can expect from you on a regular basis. No one asked you to post this retort, and no one called you out in the post you are replying to.

You've got some kind of inferiority complex going on there, pooka. I had some sympathy -- or at least empathy -- for you while you were pounding the "we don't need to tank, there are other ways to improve" drum, but now you're just wading in every time Matt posts something to bitch about what a mean, nasty internet troll he is. It's at least as ridiculous as the 'I told you so' mentality you pretend to be railing against.

I can't remember the last post I've seen from you that was about the Raptors; they're all about how some other poster has offended your sensibilities, or how they don't know how to present an argument properly, or about how they, get this -- continue to post the same stuff time after time, ad nauseum. Pot: "Hey, kettle -- you're black!"

This is pooka's M.O.
Step 1: Hijack thread with flamethrower. Insult everyone you disagree with.
Step 2: If anyone responds in kind, increase chest thumping and "You want a piece of me? You can't handle this!" Sound and fury.
Step 3: Tire of the attacks and start proclaiming you're the only one here for a "real discussion."
Step 4: Pick one person who hasn't insulted you and say "See - a real discussion! That's what I'm here for! I'm not talking to the rest of you anymore." Sniffle sniffle.
Step 5: Disappear for a day or two, then return to forums and repeat steps 1 through 5.

Engaging him is an exercise in futility and ultimately, not very interesting.

[mcHAPPY]

OK, but I think you should consider refraining from ever complaining again about people stirring the pot if this is the kind of post we can expect from you on a regular basis. No one asked you to post this retort, and no one called you out in the post you are replying to.

You've got some kind of inferiority complex going on there, pooka. I had some sympathy -- or at least empathy -- for you while you were pounding the "we don't need to tank, there are other ways to improve" drum, but now you're just wading in every time Matt posts something to bitch about what a mean, nasty internet troll he is. It's at least as ridiculous as the 'I told you so' mentality you pretend to be railing against.

I can't remember the last post I've seen from you that was about the Raptors; they're all about how some other poster has offended your sensibilities, or how they don't know how to present an argument properly, or about how they, get this -- continue to post the same stuff time after time, ad nauseum. Pot: "Hey, kettle -- you're black!"

Sadly only way I see anything from p00kster is if someone quotes him... Thanks a lot jimmie!

I agree with your post. Just to clarify, the "we" in the post to which p00kster replied was by Ryan Wolstat. Been on my phone for a couple of days and a pain in the ass to quote stuff.

[jimmie]

Don't know who the "We" is, but nobody said MU wouldn't make changes. As far as the debate being over, what debate? That a tank is or is not the best route? That the tank is in full swing or not? The Gay deal is far from anything any scenario presented as "tanking", and until an actual deal goes down, you know not just rumours, and we actually know what's coming back, there's zero reason to be proud of being "right". I hope the ladies don't also say you blow your load prematurely.

AND, moving Gay and Lowry is hardly stripping the team down to bare bones to purposely be bad for a draft pick. "Only thing left is trading DeRozan Amir and possibly jv." Is that all? lol

OK, but I think you should consider refraining from ever complaining again about people stirring the pot if this is the kind of post we can expect from you on a regular basis. No one asked you to post this retort, and no one called you out in the post you are replying to.

You've got some kind of inferiority complex going on there, pooka. I had some sympathy -- or at least empathy -- for you while you were pounding the "we don't need to tank, there are other ways to improve" drum, but now you're just wading in every time Matt posts something to bitch about what a mean, nasty internet troll he is. It's at least as ridiculous as the 'I told you so' mentality you pretend to be railing against.

I can't remember the last post I've seen from you that was about the Raptors; they're all about how some other poster has offended your sensibilities, or how they don't know how to present an argument properly, or about how they, get this -- continue to post the same stuff time after time, ad nauseum. Pot: "Hey, kettle -- you're black!"

[p00ka]

We said Masai Ujiri wasn’t done, not by a long shot (sources have indicated he’s determined to totally reshape the roster in order to make everyone forget about the previous, losing era), but the speed of a Kyle Lowry trade rumour picking up considerable speed was a surprise.

https://twitter.com/wolstatsun/statu...84980505919488


It would appear debate over with only thing left is trading DeRozan Amir and possibly jv

Don't know who the "We" is, but nobody said MU wouldn't make changes. As far as the debate being over, what debate? That a tank is or is not the best route? That the tank is in full swing or not? The Gay deal is far from anything any scenario presented as "tanking", and until an actual deal goes down, you know not just rumours, and we actually know what's coming back, there's zero reason to be proud of being "right". I hope the ladies don't also say you blow your load prematurely.

AND, moving Gay and Lowry is hardly stripping the team down to bare bones to purposely be bad for a draft pick. "Only thing left is trading DeRozan Amir and possibly jv." Is that all? lol

[Chr1s1anL]

.381 from 3 is respectable. But I like how you conveniently ignore every other dropping stat. How's his fg% doing? Career low? Great!

What do you mean you dont forget how to shoot? Patterson is shooting 3s as bad as Amir is this year. His fg% is also at a career low.

I don't think demar is breathing sighs of relief here.

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18 games is a small sample size. Patterson is 24 to say his declining is ridiculous. The percentages will work themselves out.


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[iblastoff]

Salmons is shooting .381 from 3 on 2.3 shots. Referring to Patterson you don't forget how to shoot. This team would of been better but it's looking more and more obvious Masai doesn't want to compete this year.


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.381 from 3 is respectable. But I like how you conveniently ignore every other dropping stat. How's his fg% doing? Career low? Great!

What do you mean you dont forget how to shoot? Patterson is shooting 3s as bad as Amir is this year. His fg% is also at a career low.

I don't think demar is breathing sighs of relief here.

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[Chr1s1anL]

Jesus Christ really? You think opposing teams are gonna freak out when salmons (old and declining) and Patterson (can't shoot anymore and lost his starting position almost right away in Sacramento) are on the floor, allowing demar to be freed up more? Where are these weird fantasies coming from?


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Salmons is shooting .381 from 3 on 2.3 shots. Referring to Patterson you don't forget how to shoot. This team would of been better but it's looking more and more obvious Masai doesn't want to compete this year.


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[iblastoff]

I agree with your last points about what the trade was. I don't really see a tank move as yet. What I see by this trade are:
- Depth at PG. The play of the back up guards was hurting the team when Lowry was out and at the rate he was going he would be injured sooner than later
- Freeing up minutes and shots for JV and Ross
- No drop off at SF considering how poorly Gay was playing
- Additional rebounders and interior D
- Flexibility

Another thing I found interesting is that by getting someone like Salmons, whom can handle the rock and Patterson that can shoot, it takes a lot of the pressure off DeMar. Almost like they were shaping the roster around DeMar. Will need time to tell if that theory has any validity to it.

Jesus Christ really? You think opposing teams are gonna freak out when salmons (old and declining) and Patterson (can't shoot anymore and lost his starting position almost right away in Sacramento) are on the floor, allowing demar to be freed up more? Where are these weird fantasies coming from?


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[mcHAPPY]

We said Masai Ujiri wasn’t done, not by a long shot (sources have indicated he’s determined to totally reshape the roster in order to make everyone forget about the previous, losing era), but the speed of a Kyle Lowry trade rumour picking up considerable speed was a surprise.

https://twitter.com/wolstatsun/statu...84980505919488

It would appear debate over with only thing left is trading DeRozan Amir and possibly jv

[Chr1s1anL]

I bench would of really helped in this game


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[Joey]

I feel like we really reached a mile-stone you guys.. a real breakthrough today.
This new-found communication is really great to see between the two sides ... I guess this is what it feels like when Israel and Palestine sit down for talks...

[LBF]

Bold: a perfectly valid assumption. And from the vast majority of what I've read, no matter what the attempts to cloak it differently, that's exactly what it means.

This goes for me as well. I'm too lazy to search for Heinz post, so I'll just go with pooka's.

[OldSkoolCool]

Rebuilding with the residual benefit of an in-season, pre-trade-deadline tank.

Pre-emptive trade-deadline sellers. This one avoids the ethical/emotional/karmic backlash associated with "tanking".

Those work...however I do not want to sound like the wacky waving inflatable arm flailing tube man, when I could just say tank..

[Uncle_Si]

Bold: a perfectly valid assumption. And from the vast majority of what I've read, no matter what the attempts to cloak it differently, that's exactly what it means.

Other than that, thanks for the words of wisdom in avoiding the constant tank bombardment. This old dog will try and learn new tricks to follow suit. Your sense of humour is sure sorely missed around here though. Despite my early battles with Nilanka, I sure appreciate his attempts to bring levity to discussions, but it doesn't quite fill the void. Cheers

You're right we're chasing ping pong balls and trying to build from there. Well what do they represent? In this draft they represent an opportunity that comes once a decade to draft a player that can change the course of your franchise. Seeing how our course has been pretty awful and the amount of players in this draft (represented by those Ping pong balls) that could change our franchise exist, well yes I am willing to chase ping pong balls. I want lots of ping pong balls too as many as we can possibly get. Any ping pong balls really so long as there's lots of them.