Extend Lowry?

[KeonClark]

Top 15? Backups you mean? Lol he's barely top 30

Among point guards:
15th in pts
10th in assists
10th in assist to turnover
8th in steals
14th in rebounds


..with better defense than at least half the guys above him. Remind me again how he's not top 15?

[CalgaryRapsFan]

Among point guards:
15th in pts
10th in assists
10th in assist to turnover
8th in steals
14th in rebounds


..with better defense than at least half the guys above him. Remind me again how he's not top 15?

Go through the list of starting PG in the league and ask yourself if you'd honestly trade them for Lowry. Lowry would be lucky to even break the top-20 in the league when talent, potential, age, salary, etc... are all considered.

Starting PGs who are equal/better than Lowry:
- Rondo
- D-Williams
- MCW (Wroten also looks good on Philly)
- Rose
- Irving
- Jennings
- Hill
- Teague (Atlanta)
- Walker
- Wall
- Curry
- Paul
- Bledsoe
- Dragic
- Conley
- Holiday
- Parker (though not long-term due to age)
- Lawson
- Rubio
- Westbrook
- Lillard
- Burke (still raw but looks good early in his career)



I don't know if the anti-tank fumes have been let loose here in the republic lately or what, but this extreme over-evaluation of remaining Raptors players is getting silly.

[draftedraptor]

we will find ourselves in a very attractive free agent market for PGs in two years if we tank successfully and pick up two quality bigs like Wiggins 2014 and Cliff Alexander 2015.

If we pull off a trade for Barnes now and go into 2015 with a core of Barnes, Demar, Val and the rooks we would be irresistible for a top free agent PG.

has anyone thought of that?

[Quirk]

Go through the list of starting PG in the league and ask yourself if you'd honestly trade them for Lowry. Lowry would be lucky to even break the top-20 in the league when talent, potential, age, salary, etc... are all considered.

http://is.gd/5qi3w7

Lowry is easilly top 10 on your list in terms of performance this season.



.

[CalgaryRapsFan]

http://is.gd/5qi3w7

Lowry is easilly top 10 on your list in terms of performance this season.



.

I certainly don't look blindly at stats, nor do GMs, or so I'd be willing to bet. Plus, some of the players I listed are injured or off to bad starts, but a statistically bad quarter season is not enough to suddenly write them off.

Remember, Lowry is only getting into the discussion for top 10-20 PG in a healthy, contract year.

I understand there could be some debate for positioning in the 15-25 range, but there's no way Lowry is a top-15 PG in this league.

[Quirk]

Barnes, Demar, Val and the rooks we would be irresistible for a top free agent PG.

All of the above are average players at this stage, and JV is the only one with potential to be more, IMO. Barnes and DD are useful players, for sure, but simply average starters in the league, the calibre of which every team has, and will not attract anyone.

http://is.gd/IlL6Pf

[Quirk]

I certainly don't look blindly at stats

Using the word "blindly" doesn't disguise the fact that you have not substantiated your argument in anyway, with stats or otherwise, just made some random list.

[CalgaryRapsFan]

Using the word "blindly" doesn't the disguise the fact that you have not substantiated your argument in anyway, with stats or otherwise, just made some random list.

Oh please, that was hardly a random list. You make it sound like I picked unknown players or fringe players, when that's not the case. Most of them are established stars in the league, or widely regarded as the next wave of star PGs in the league. I didn't think anybody who followed the NBA would need any referenced evidence to understand these fellow PGs were better than Lowry.

- Chris Paul
- Deron Williams
- Rajon Rondo
- Russell Westbrook
- Derrick Rose
- Stephen Curry
- Damian Lillard
- Eric Bledsoe
- Goran Dragic
- John Wall
- Kyrie Irving
- Ty Lawson
- Ricky Rubio

I hope this shortened list speaks for itself. When these players are healthy, there is absolutely no chance that Lowry is a top-10 PG. There is a big group of PGs that Lowry would be included in, to fight for the 14-25 range.

If you want to cherry-pick some stats in an attempt to 'prove' that Lowry is better than any players on this list (granted, some are indeed injured this season), go right ahead, but you'll never convince me (or most NBA GMs, I'd be willing to bet).

[white men can't jump]

Anyone posted this yet?

Source confirms Raptors working "hard" to move DeRozan and Lowry....but the price for both is "surprisingly high."

— Bill Ingram (@TheRocketGuy) December 18, 2013

[CalgaryRapsFan]

Anyone posted this yet?

Source confirms Raptors working "hard" to move DeRozan and Lowry....but the price for both is "surprisingly high."

— Bill Ingram (@TheRocketGuy) December 18, 2013

I would hope MU sticks to his guns on both players. Only a deal providing a "surprisingly high" return would be acceptable to most pro or anti tankers.

[Quirk]

Oh please, that was hardly a random list.

I don't need to convince you, you can believe whatever you want, but until you make an argument for each of those players, it's just a random list.

[CalgaryRapsFan]

I don't need to convince you, you can believe whatever you want, but until you make an argument for each of those players, it's just a random list.

Not true at all. There are loads of stats, past performances, etc.. that exist. I don't have to reference them to validate them.

I also expect posters here to have passing knowledge of the NBA, beyond the Raptors.

I don't need to reference a scientific study to make the statement "grass is green" true. Likewise I shouldn't need to provide a link to a filtered stat page to substantiate a statement that Curry is a better shooter/scorer than Lowry. Some things are established facts.

If you want to believe that Lowry is a top-10 PG in the NBA (when everybody is healthy), go right ahead. If you want to pull any filtered stats in a vacuum to 'prove' a point you're trying to make, go for it. If you honestly believe that, it's not worth my time or effort to argue with you.

Besides, I stated from my first post on the topic that it was simply my opinion, based on certain criteria. There is no stat to prove "best overall", since it's a subjective opinion. Had I made any claim about a particular stat in a particular time frame, then reference away to prove or disprove.

[draftedraptor]

All of the above are average players at this stage, and JV is the only one with potential to be more, IMO. Barnes and DD are useful players, for sure, but simply average starters in the league, the calibre of which every team has, and will not attract anyone.

http://is.gd/IlL6Pf

Demar is a starter.Val/Barnes have a big ceiling. The two bigs from the successive drafts would be our shot at genuine stars. Even if they were just above-average guys we will have so much cap-space left to attract a star PG. Someone like Irving, Walker, Rondo will look into the team and think he might get a max here while also getting a shot at winning titles in a top-heavy roster.

[psrs1]

Among point guards:
15th in pts
10th in assists
10th in assist to turnover
8th in steals
14th in rebounds


..with better defense than at least half the guys above him. Remind me again how he's not top 15?

Good points. The fact that so many teams interested in him suggests that we undervalue him.

[CalgaryRapsFan]

Good points. The fact that so many teams interested in him suggests that we undervalue him.

How does the Knicks rumored offer of Felton & MWP prove that 'we' undervalue him?

If that's among the best offers MU has received for Lowry, then it would appear to be far more likely that 'we' are overvaluing Lowry, compared to other GMs.