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DC and development of young players: bad players, bad coach or something more?

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  • #46
    Why can this team not develop players properly?

    Answer #1 - because this team is never willing to truelly rebuild. Its a constant retool. Or some rebuild/retool hybrid. Developing young players will tend to lead towards losing (early in their careers) and this team is constantly in some form of 'win now' mode.

    Answer #2 - because this team hasn't drafted effectively, and has overvalued the players it has drafted.

    Lets remember from this team's start until Grunwald was fired this team drafted:

    - Mighty Mouse, Camby, McGrady, Vince, Mo Pete, Bosh.

    They drafted well, they drafted high end and/or valuable players AND allowed them to play in order to get better - even though that resulted in losses early on in their careers.

    Coach Casey. I have long maintained he is not the right coach for a rebuilding team. He prefers to not play young players because they make mistakes and those mistakes can lead to losses, and his goal is always to win. He is right in his approach given his philosophy and the approach this team has wanted to take. And this is the problem, the win now approach is a mistake at this given time. If this team wins games because its draft picks are playing well, improving etc, then great. But thats not why its winning games (and I use the term 'winning' loosely ofcourse)

    Its not that this team can't develop players, its that its not consistently drafting the right players (and that is not in reference to any one player and/or how good they are or aren't), the ones they do are being overvalued and its not making the sacrifices a team or organization needs to make in order to develop them.

    This team should absolutely draft - but realize it needs to build through the draft, and it will likely have to be willing to sacrifice wins, both now and in the near future, for that to work out effectively.

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    • #47
      Craiger wrote: View Post
      Why can this team not develop players properly?

      Answer #1 - because this team is never willing to truelly rebuild. Its a constant retool. Or some rebuild/retool hybrid. Developing young players will tend to lead towards losing (early in their careers) and this team is constantly in some form of 'win now' mode.

      Answer #2 - because this team hasn't drafted effectively, and has overvalued the players it has drafted.

      Lets remember from this team's start until Grunwald was fired this team drafted:

      - Mighty Mouse, Camby, McGrady, Vince, Mo Pete, Bosh.

      They drafted well, they drafted high end and/or valuable players AND allowed them to play in order to get better - even though that resulted in losses early on in their careers.

      Coach Casey. I have long maintained he is not the right coach for a rebuilding team. He prefers to not play young players because they make mistakes and those mistakes can lead to losses, and his goal is always to win. He is right in his approach given his philosophy and the approach this team has wanted to take. And this is the problem, the win now approach is a mistake at this given time. If this team wins games because its draft picks are playing well, improving etc, then great. But thats not why its winning games (and I use the term 'winning' loosely ofcourse)

      Its not that this team can't develop players, its that its not consistently drafting the right players (and that is not in reference to any one player and/or how good they are or aren't), the ones they do are being overvalued and its not making the sacrifices a team or organization needs to make in order to develop them.

      This team should absolutely draft - but realize it needs to build through the draft, and it will likely have to be willing to sacrifice wins, both now and in the near future, for that to work out effectively.
      Whooot there it is!

      Comment


      • #48
        yukhan1980 wrote: View Post
        As long as he reaches the full potential that we are hoping he has to offer. If not then Drummond will always come to haunt us thats why i always say we should have picked him instead of Ross you should always pick the BPA dont matter if you already have centre those problwms sort out themselfs later
        JV's development (whether he is a stud or a dud) should never cause the non-Drummond pick to haunt us. They are mutually exclusive.

        What will ALWAYS haunt this roster is that it didn't take the BPA, it didn't take a player with superstar potential because Colangelo was more worried about himself then this team.

        How good or bad or mediocre Jonas is, is completely irrelevant. Colangelo only used Jonas as an excuse for not drafting Drummond.

        Comment


        • #49
          Axel wrote: View Post
          Apparently not. The numbers have spoken for months.
          Stahmenah_Vybz wrote: View Post
          You lost me? What that your answer to everything I Stated? Or something specific?
          My post quoted your OP and bolded the following: "Seriously though, enough of the Tanking talks. Surely there are more Raps fans who would rather the team play hard, have the right coach who can teach the young guys properly and make the playoffs, even if we get beat the first round, it will at least be a playoff experience."

          You say that surely there are more Raps fans that want what you want, but it has been clearly demonstrated in multiple threads, posts, polls over the last 8 months that isn't the case. At this point you may want to accept that you are in the minority.
          Heir, Prince of Cambridge

          If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

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          • #50
            Stahmenah_Vybz wrote: View Post
            I don't get it. All the talks about players not wanting to come play in Canada and when they get good, they leave to go to greener grass and now there's talks about trading DD? What gives? We are, in my opinion a couple pieces from being decent. Why blow it up in the hopes of maybe getting something in the draft? Raptors have a history of not using their Rookies the right way and not wanting to play too many Rookies at the same time. What good will having a top draft pic if they will be dealt with wrong.

            If I am one of the top 5 players and Raps pick me, I would pull an Eric Lindros (Refuse to go to the Nordiques) because they were so bad a the time. In this case, it would be because I know they will not use me the right way.

            Seriously though, enough of the Tanking talks. Surely there are more Raps fans who would rather the team play hard, have the right coach who can teach the young guys properly and make the playoffs, even if we get beat the first round, it will at least be a playoff experience.

            Look at Portland, they are killing it right not and they don't have superstars. Lilliard, who everyone was questioning Portland about taking so high is the quickly becoming one of the best point guard in the league. I doubt if he was drafter by the Raps he would get all the playing time he has been and certainly not have won Rookie Of The Year.

            Another example is Drummond. He is way better than JV because in my opinion, he is getting his feet wet by actually being in games even when he makes mistakes. If you don't get a chance to learn from your mistakes, how are you going to learn?

            So come MLSE, do the right thing and think about your fans that have been loyal to the Raps from all these years. DD is playing great ball, he loves the City and the City loves him. Kyle is playing great as of late and with the new players we just got, who knows what can happen when it comes to getting a coach that knows what he is doing?

            Just my though on this anyway!
            To think we just missed out in drafting lillard in 2012 and seeing how quick Portland did a rebuild makes me sick! Yes they had Aldridge to build around but it is amazing how quick the transformation has been. Why couldn't that have been us?

            Comment


            • #51
              psrs1 wrote: View Post
              To think we just missed out in drafting lillard in 2012 and seeing how quick Portland did a rebuild makes me sick! Yes they had Aldridge to build around but it is amazing how quick the transformation has been. Why couldn't that have been us?
              Because Raps didn't have an all-star to begin with or assets that could return a lottery pick.

              Imagine if Portland didn't get #6 from Brooklyn and subsequently Lillard.... they'd have taken Leonard at 11 and Aldridge would be gone now.

              On the flip side, imagine they'd taken Henson (assuming it is not the circumstances in Milwaukee that brought out his talent/potential).



              But yeah, an all-star to begin with certainly helps.

              Comment


              • #52
                Stahmenah_Vybz wrote: View Post
                Actually, he dropped to 9th because people was questioning his MOTOR! He use to run out of breath and I actually saw the columbine and he was gassed! Well Videos of it anyway! lol
                Hibbert had similar issues initially .

                Comment


                • #53
                  Is there sustained and ongoing tension between DC and JVAL?

                  Had anybody observed any unusual non-verbal cues between DC and JVAL?

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                  • #54
                    I'm told Casey is not classy and does not call after. These type of May December romances rarely last
                    For still frame photograph of me reading the DeRozan thread please refer to my avatar

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                    • #55
                      Didn't you already start a thread related to this and have it moved?

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        If you get pulled and never finish a single game wouldn't you have a chip on your shoulder?

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                        • #57
                          drunkmunky wrote: View Post
                          If you get pulled and never finish a single game wouldn't you have a chip on your shoulder?
                          Nobody seems to be willing to discuss a potentially troublesome issue that may be developing in the locker room.
                          Have you observed anything in this regard?

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            KHD wrote: View Post
                            Didn't you already start a thread related to this and have it moved?
                            Calgaryraptorsfan felt it had been discussed. I disagree. Let the posters decide.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              psrs1 wrote: View Post
                              Calgaryraptorsfan felt it had been discussed. I disagree. Let the posters decide.
                              I mistakenly assumed you wanted to discuss his playing time, which has been an ongoing discussion for well over a season, which is why your post was moved.

                              Had I realized you actually were going for conspiracy theories, I probably would have closed the thread and moved it to the trash-bin.

                              I'm democratic enough to give you a little leeway but, from the posts above mine, I think you're flying solo on this expedition!

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Like, sexual tension? JV does seem kinda shy...
                                Eh follow my TWITTER!

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