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  • I don't know why people are just refusing to accept that if DeRozan were able to play off a legit number one his efficiency would see a large increase. If you want another example, look at monta Ellis. Everyone was calling him a chucker last year and now he's one of the most efficient guards in the league. Did he suddenly improve as a player? Or is it because he's playing off dirk now instead of being miscast as the man in no hopeless bucks offense?

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    • Nosike wrote: View Post
      Wake the fuck up people.

      Derozan still has to take a lot of long twos (contested often times) because he's the number one scoring option on the team and has to be the bailout guy offensively a lot of the time. You put Ross in that role and he'll struggle to shoot 40% from the field.

      Derozan is meant to be a secondary or tertiary scorer and is paid as such. For now we're going to have to deal with lower efficiency than we'd like until we get a legit number one guy in here. It's not like derozan would need to or want to take bad shots if Lebron played here. Stick him on the clippers where defenses are looking to stop Blake and Paul first and you'd see his efficiency rise.

      Just look at Gordon Hayward. Based on his true shooting percentages a lot of you derozan detractors would call him a checker. This is a guy who was hyper efficient last year. So what happened? Is he in a 30 game shooting slump? Or is it because defenses are trying to stop him first and foremost now instead of Jefferson and millsap?

      I love advanced stats but they HAVE to be used with context. If not I could reason that trading derozan for Shane battier would make this team infinitely better.
      Bang on! You saved me some typing.

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      • DD's true shooting percentage is bumped up due to him shooting more FTs per game than Aldridge. Other than that you can see how stats do not favor the long 2, which is where the majority of both players points come from. Also Aldridge is capable of handling double teams and can take a game over, DD not so much.

        Ellis has been an inefficient chucker in the past, and has become more efficient due to the fact that he has started to grow up as a player. He is making smarter decisions and is being asked to run the offense more than score, and it has resulted in him attacking the rim more. Yes he does have a star to play off of, and gets some better looks from three, but he is able to hit the three unlike DD (which is another reason why he cannot be a secondary option due to his lack of outside shooting)

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        • OldSkoolCool wrote: View Post
          DD's true shooting percentage is bumped up due to him shooting more FTs per game than Aldridge. Other than that you can see how stats do not favor the long 2, which is where the majority of both players points come from. Also Aldridge is capable of handling double teams and can take a game over, DD not so much.
          Newsflash, getting to the free throw line is a big part of efficient scoring. The fact that demar gets to the line is a good thing, not some asterisk that you just skip over. One if the reasons why James harden is so efficient is that he gets to the line almost 10 times a game, ditto for Durant. Aldridge does not score on double teams well and part of the reason why Portland is winning so much is because teams can't double him or lillard is going to go right to the rim for a layup. Teams are respecting Damian a lot more this year and that's making things easier for lamarcus.

          Ellis has been an inefficient chucker in the past, and has become more efficient due to the fact that he has started to grow up as a player. He is making smarter decisions and is being asked to run the offense more than score, and it has resulted in him attacking the rim more. Yes he does have a star to play off of, and gets some better looks from three, but he is able to hit the three unlike DD (which is another reason why he cannot be a secondary option due to his lack of outside shooting)
          No he hasn't grown up as a player, he's performing better because he's on a better team where he doesn't have to be the number one guy. If you don't believe that, then please take note of the fact that he has had a season with this level of efficiency before (actually HIGHER shot over 50% from the field with 20ppg), because he was on a warriors team with multiple offensive weapons as or more dangerous than himself.

          Idk how you can say he can hit the three unlike DD, when he is shooting 32% and demar is shooting 31%, while demar takes and makes more per game. Don't ever make things up.

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          • OldSkoolCool wrote: View Post
            DD's true shooting percentage is bumped up due to him shooting more FTs per game than Aldridge. Other than that you can see how stats do not favor the long 2, which is where the majority of both players points come from. Also Aldridge is capable of handling double teams and can take a game over, DD not so much.

            Ellis has been an inefficient chucker in the past, and has become more efficient due to the fact that he has started to grow up as a player. He is making smarter decisions and is being asked to run the offense more than score, and it has resulted in him attacking the rim more. Yes he does have a star to play off of, and gets some better looks from three, but he is able to hit the three unlike DD (which is another reason why he cannot be a secondary option due to his lack of outside shooting)
            1st Bold: So what? You like stats. That's part of TS%. Either TS% is one of your acceptable stats or not. You can't just exclude portions of it to support the narrative.

            All Other Bolds: For a guy running around asking for proof, as in stats/facts not opinions, all over the place, with Matt52 as your personal back-up singer/asst, this is a rather odd way to counter a stat that doesn't fit your narrative. Where's your "proof" of these opinions?

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            • p00ka wrote: View Post
              1st Bold: So what? You like stats. That's part of TS%. Either TS% is one of your acceptable stats or not. You can't just exclude portions of it to support the narrative.

              All Other Bolds: For a guy running around asking for proof, as in stats/facts not opinions, all over the place, with Matt52 as your personal back-up singer/asst, this is a rather odd way to counter a stat that doesn't fit your narrative. Where's your "proof" of these opinions?
              pOOka...my sentence was a statement, so I really don't know what you are trying to say with your '1st Bold:'

              In this case, Nosike is talking about LA being considered efficient, but DD not being efficient even though they have the same TS%. What I said is that DDs TS% is similar to the TS% of LA due to the fact that he takes more FT's (and because he shoots the three), not because he is as good of a shooter as LA is. TS% and eFg% are not kind to the mid ranged jump shot and neither player will have great advanced stats because, especially LA because that is where he gets his shots

              K are you ready for some stats about DD and LA and who is efficient???
              I'm not going to use TS% because it doesn't like either player, I will instead break down their shot selection and percentages in order to look at what are the players strengths, and how often do they play to their strengths (which is the basis of efficiency)

              I'm going to break this into 3 parts, Short Ranged (shooting from rim to 9 feet), Mid Ranged (10-19 feet) and Long Range (20+ feet)

              Short Ranged
              LA - 123/232 = 53.0% shooting. 34.9% of his total shots are taken from this area
              DD - 90/151 = 59.6% shooting. 29.7% of his total shots are taken from this area

              Mid Ranged
              LA - 161/357 = 45.1% shooting. 53.7% of his total shots are taken from this area.
              DD - 78/224 = 34.8% shooting. 44.1% of his total shots are taken in this area.

              Long Ranged
              LA - 31/76 = 40.8% shooting. 11.4% of his total shots are taken from this area
              DD - 46/133 = 34.6% shooting. 26.1% of his total shots are taken from this area.

              So, I have numbers, what do they mean??

              DDs strength is finishing at or near the rim (60%), and as soon as he steps past 9ft, his percentages drop to a paltry 35%. So, in order for DD to be efficient, he should be taking the majority (ie >50%) of his shots at the rim. Instead he only takes 30% of his shots in close, and takes 70% of his shots in areas that he doesn't shoot well. That isn't efficient play.

              LAs strength is the mid ranged jumper, which he is turning in at a pretty good clip and he is taking the majority of his shots from that mid ranged area. Also consider that his close range is still a solid number, and is his second highest usage area. His lowest percentage area (Long Range - 40%, which is better than DD) is by far his lowest usage area.

              Conclusion:
              DD takes a ton of low percentage (for his skills) shots and doesn't play to his efficient areas on the floor. LA is efficient because he takes 89% of his shots from areas of strength, whereas DD only takes 30% of his shots from efficient areas. TS% is great for a cursoury glance.

              So when Nosike asks how can LA be considered efficient but DD not considered efficient even though they have the same TS%, you have to dig a little deeper and you see that LA is indeed a much more efficient player do to the types of shots taken and how many. This same process will tell you that DD is a very good corner three shooter, however, he tends to shoot very little from the corners and is therefor an inefficient player because he doesn't play to his strengths.


              I am really not a stat guru, and really do think that stats have some pretty big limits, but they are used to look into what we see on the court (to help analyze the eye test). Saying that DD has the same TS% as LA and therefor concluding that DD is efficient, is not good use of stats. Also anyone who watches the game will tell you immediately that LA is a much better player than DD.






              When I ask for a post explaining why you think DD is good, I expect to see:

              DD does _______ in game, and he is really good at it because ____

              All I'm getting is either no explanation as to what he does well in a game or I get a "I've proven it, where are your stats??, you're a troll". I'm even at the point at saying this: What does DD do well in a game, you don't have to prove it, just what do you see from him when he is on the court??????
              Last edited by OldSkoolCool; Wed Jan 1, 2014, 06:43 PM.

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