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  • thead
    replied
    Is thread about something or can I close it now? I was gonna moderate it but closing it seems easier

    Leave a comment:


  • p00ka
    replied
    iblastoff wrote: View Post
    i'm not talking about anti-tankers or protankers. i am specifically talking about that ONE person and things they have specifically said themselves.

    i get along with most pro-tankers and anti-tankers on this site just fine, unlike you.
    I'm not here to "get along". I have plenty of friends in the real world. I came here to discuss the Raptors and the NBA. But just like a basketball team needs role players, so does this RR team. My role has been defined by identifying a missing piece: a thorn in the side of jackasses. You don't like it? You can't handle the heat? Go join your buddy behind the coward wall, or stop whining about how I don't get along.

    Leave a comment:


  • p00ka
    replied
    Matt52 wrote: View Post
    p00ka thinks the ignore list is about conversing with like minded people.

    Sadly he doesn't understand that it is about not conversing with or wasting time reading ignorant, abrasive, confrontational, childish, and/or intolerant people who provide little joy, enlightenment, or ingenuity to the discussion.

    By the way, you need more lube..... thanks.
    lmao, way to full of himself. No pal, in your case the ignore wall is you being cowardly. Bullies are like that when someone stands up to them. Has always been that way.

    Leave a comment:


  • mcHAPPY
    replied
    iblastoff wrote: View Post
    i'm not talking about anti-tankers or protankers. i am specifically talking about that ONE person and things they have specifically said themselves.

    i get along with most pro-tankers and anti-tankers on this site just fine, unlike you.
    p00ka thinks the ignore list is about conversing with like minded people.

    Sadly he doesn't understand that it is about not conversing with or wasting time reading ignorant, abrasive, confrontational, childish, and/or intolerant people who provide little joy, enlightenment, or ingenuity to the discussion.

    By the way, you need more lube..... thanks.

    Leave a comment:


  • mcHAPPY
    replied
    iblastoff wrote: View Post
    this is the most pathetic grudge i've read so far. get the fuck over it buddy. things happen out of our control. NO ONE expected this sort of run from the team. not fans, not the media, and i doubt even MU. trying to take credit for being 'right' (what exactly are anti-tankers even think they're right about???) just because the team all of a sudden started playing well out of nowhere is ludicrous.

    remember when YOU said the previous version of the raptors WITH RUDY GAY were going to be a .500 team? you still think with rudy on the team that would have been the case?

    the difference is you don't give a shit if the raptors win or lose. you said it yourself. you don't care if the raptors ever win a championship. you don't care if we get better or worse because you will love the team regardless. Useless, blind fanaticism doesn't make you a 'better' fan in any way. it just makes you someone with supremely low standards.
    Too funny.

    Leave a comment:


  • iblastoff
    replied
    p00ka wrote: View Post
    There you go. "us tankers have higher standards than you people", for the 5,000th time, but yeah, take offense at somebody shoving back. If you don't like it, take Matt's suggestion and join him behind the ignore wall, where you only have to deal with being stroked.
    i'm not talking about anti-tankers or protankers. i am specifically talking about that ONE person and things they have specifically said themselves.

    i get along with most pro-tankers and anti-tankers on this site just fine, unlike you.

    Leave a comment:


  • mcHAPPY
    replied
    CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    I'm sorry, but you're completely full of shit.

    First, going back to the offseason (might have even been the end of last season) when there was a thread with a poll that asked posters to classify themselves as "tankers" or "tweakers", I never voted. I posted my rationale in that thread and many times since, stating that I believed in a retooling (ie: more than a tweak, but not a blatant tank).

    Second, despite the teams' success so far this season, I still have serious reservations about their ability to be successful in any sustainable manner, without some retooling. The same problems continue to persist, primarily the fact that the team is capped-out (assuming Lowry is re-signed, because this team would be a part of the EC 'tankapalooza' without Lowry) and needs to rely on organic growth to improve further. Of course they could do so via trade (ie: talent for talent, such as DeRozan), which is exactly what retooling is. Many EC teams below Toronto in the current standings have been decimated by injuries, many are stockpiling young talent, many are stockpiling 1st round draft picks, many will have substantial cap space; it's very likely that at least some of them will equal or better the Raptors next season. Remember, 'no man's land' isn't just a here-and-now concept, but rather a fluid one (and I'm sure MU is well aware of this, to avoid a repeat of BC's approach in 06-07).

    Third, the only "tanking" I ever supported was rebuilding/retooling that started during this season, when I did expect them to be a playoff bubble team at best. My rationale has always been that if a rebuild/retool was inevitable (ie: if that's what MU wants to do), they may as well start this season instead of waiting until next offseason, to ALSO take advantage of the allegedly strong/deep 2014 draft. I never once have said anything along the lines of "lets dump all our good players to lose on purpose to draft higher and get a savior"; the draft was also a beneficial by-product of a proper rebuild/retool, as far as any team-building strategy I proposed.

    Fourth, what "proof" do you speak of? Had the rumored Lowry-to-NY trade happened, this team would be "tanking". If MU trades Lowry before the deadline, this team will be "tanking". Same goes for DeRozan or Johnson. I don't know what will happen, nor does anybody not named Masai Ujiri, pro-tanker or anti-tanker. Get off your high horse.


    All I ever wanted was for the team to be rebuilt/retooled properly, far more efficiently and effectively than any of BC's frankenteams. MU unloaded Bargnani for draft picks, swapped Gay's uncertain albatross contract for several serviceable players (3 are/could be expiring), and was rumored to be looking to sell-high on Lowry's expiring contract. All those moves were perfectly aligned with my preferred approach, as stated several times in multiple threads (including 2 separate respectful exchanges directly with you).

    I'm really not sure why you're spewing such venom at myself, Matt52 and others, in the midst of a fantastic 12 game stretch in the wake of the Gay trade. MU has yet to make any moves that run counter to the type of team-building I support. The team is winning, which is great.

    The only "proof" I see is proof of your continued ignorance, as opposed to actually trying to understand the team-building strategy being promoted by many (not all) 'pro-tankers'. Instead, you (and some other 'anti-tankers') have always maintained your own preconceived notion about "tanking" and arbitrarily painted all 'pro-tankers' with the same brush, even when we went to great lengths to try and explain that what you think "tanking" is and what we want are two entirely different things!

    It's never been all about losing and improving the Raptors' own 2014 1st round pick, as a be-all and end-all strategy. As such, I'm not the least bit disappointed to see this team improving and winning. I've also not changed my belief that at some point, some degree of retooling will be necessary for this team to truly jump to the next level of contending in the NBA. I still think getting a high lottery pick in the 2014 draft would have been a great and logical way to jumpstart any rebuilding/retooling, but there are other ways of getting such a pick, be it during the season or during the draft itself. That's precisely why the asset accumulation part of the strategy has always been far more important to the team-building process than just the Raptors' own 2014 pick for us 'pro-tankers'... maybe that point will sink in someday!


    Bold 1: Well said. Saves me typing.... although I only see his posts when other reply with quote it.

    Bold 2: Unlikely. If they don't get it by now, they will never get it.

    Leave a comment:


  • p00ka
    replied
    iblastoff wrote: View Post
    this is the most pathetic grudge i've read so far. get the fuck over it buddy. things happen out of our control. NO ONE expected this sort of run from the team. not fans, not the media, and i doubt even MU. trying to take credit for being 'right' (what exactly are anti-tankers even think they're right about???) just because the team all of a sudden started playing well out of nowhere is ludicrous.

    remember when YOU said the previous version for the raptors WITH RUDY GAY were going to be a .500 team? you still think with rudy on the team that would have been the case?

    the difference is you don't give a shit if the raptors win or lose. you said it yourself. you don't care if the raptors ever win a championship. you don't care if we get better or worse because you will love the team regardless. Useless, blind fanaticism doesn't make you a 'better' fan in any way. it just makes you someone with supremely low standards.
    There you go. "us tankers have higher standards than you people", for the 5,000th time, but yeah, take offense at somebody shoving back. If you don't like it, take Matt's suggestion and join him behind the ignore wall, where you only have to deal with being stroked.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jamshid
    replied
    Tanking for this team is NOT going to happen and pro-tankers should stop dreaming and start to enjoy this team like the rest of us.

    #EastFinals
    #AmirTop5PF
    #DDTOP5SG
    #LOWRYMRHUSTLE

    Leave a comment:


  • p00ka
    replied
    stooley wrote: View Post
    Your posts are bordering on offensive.

    You should read the thread I made a little while ago with regards to anti-tankers. CRF along with many others made long, well thought out posts. You might learn something.

    http://www.raptorsrepublic.com/forum...t=anti-tankers

    That thread was made before this turn around.
    Shit, the very oft tankers' stance that "we're not the short-sighted ones, happy with mediocrity" is bloody offensive. The bullying gang-ups on anti-tankers that have occurred is bloody offensive. Some people need to stop crying foul, and take their medicine back.

    Leave a comment:


  • iblastoff
    replied
    special1 wrote: View Post
    LOL - Please give it a rest. We know exactly what you wanted. You repeat yourself almost as much as Tim W. does.....and thats saying a lot! lol You called yourself a "pro-tanker" and changed the meaning sooooo many times so that you can fit yourself into it. I used you and Matt52 as an example for a reason. I remember telling you that i would never let you get away with the things that you wrote about this team. Your opinions were set in stone (well sorta - now you don't push for trading Demar or Amir as much as you used to). To be honest, you softened a lot on your stances.

    However....

    You don't get to pretend that you wanted this core to stay together. You don't get to act like you believed in this core.

    Going back a year.....I can't forget how bad you and Matt52 REALLY wanted Rudy Gay. You guys wanted him sooooo bad! I'm just going to be a real fan and say it.....so far it looks like you guys are often wrong.

    Maybe you need to get off your high horse?? You know just as much as anyone else on here. Repeating the same tanking crap won't change shit. You can stop with your condescending posts too. If it appears that i'm on a high horse its only because yours appears so low right now.

    I never thought tanking was a good option for the Raps because we simply had too much talent. How could we get into the top 5 without taking back bad players/contracts? Did you honestly think someone was going to give up their top 10 pick in this draft?? I really thought you were smarter than this. Look at your avatar! You should be ashamed that your still pushing that tanking crap. It's not going to happen......maybe at some point it will sink in.....someday!
    this is the most pathetic grudge i've read so far. get the fuck over it buddy. things happen out of our control. NO ONE expected this sort of run from the team. not fans, not the media, and i doubt even MU. trying to take credit for being 'right' (what exactly are anti-tankers even think they're right about???) just because the team all of a sudden started playing well out of nowhere is ludicrous.

    remember when YOU said the previous version of the raptors WITH RUDY GAY were going to be a .500 team? you still think with rudy on the team that would have been the case?

    the difference is you don't give a shit if the raptors win or lose. you said it yourself. you don't care if the raptors ever win a championship. you don't care if we get better or worse because you will love the team regardless. Useless, blind fanaticism doesn't make you a 'better' fan in any way. it just makes you someone with supremely low standards.
    Last edited by iblastoff; Thu Jan 2nd, 2014, 06:25 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • CalgaryRapsFan
    replied
    special1 wrote: View Post
    LOL - Please give it a rest. We know exactly what you wanted. You repeat yourself almost as much as Tim W. does.....and thats saying a lot! lol You called yourself a "pro-tanker" and changed the meaning sooooo many times so that you can fit yourself into it. I used you and Matt52 as an example for a reason. I remember telling you that i would never let you get away with the things that you wrote about this team. Your opinions were set in stone (well sorta - now you don't push for trading Demar or Amir as much as you used to). To be honest, you softened a lot on your stances.

    However....

    You don't get to pretend that you wanted this core to stay together. You don't get to act like you believed in this core.

    Going back a year.....I can't forget how bad you and Matt52 REALLY wanted Rudy Gay. You guys wanted him sooooo bad! I'm just going to be a real fan and say it.....so far it looks like you guys are often wrong.

    Maybe you need to get off your high horse?? You know just as much as anyone else on here. Repeating the same tanking crap won't change shit. You can stop with your condescending posts too. If it appears that i'm on a high horse its only because yours appears so low right now.

    I never thought tanking was a good option for the Raps because we simply had too much talent. How could we get into the top 5 without taking back bad players/contracts? Did you honestly think someone was going to give up their top 10 pick in this draft?? I really thought you were smarter than this. Look at your avatar! You should be ashamed that your still pushing that tanking crap. It's not going to happen......maybe at some point it will sink in.....someday!
    I'm sorry, but you're wrong.

    Yes, I did want Gay last season. The previous offseason I had suggested trades including DeRozan for Gay. In hindsight, I still think the actual Gay trade (Calderon & Davis & 2nd round pick) was a good trade, that just didn't work out as well as it could have (Bargnani regressing and getting injured, then checking out, didn't help). I got what I wanted and it didn't work out. Going into this season I was objective enough to realize that given his propensity for dominating the ball and with a contract nearing $20M next season, the team would be best served by trading him.

    Yes, I did push for a DeRozan trade last offseason, when he was still on his rookie contract. Millsap via S&T was my primary target. I felt Amir was best served as a 3rd big, who would get starter minutes backing up a rookie (Valanciunas). I also felt that coupled with the trade for Gay, Fields/Ross would be better fits on the wing.

    Once the offseason started with MU as the team's new GM, I did push for a rebuild, with Bargnani, Gay and Lowry (I have been consistent in my preference for pass-first PGs since the Ford/Calderon era) being my primary targets. I still supported DeRozan being traded, but with a much higher requirement for returned value.

    I have been 100% consistent that I wanted MU to rebuild/retool around a core of Valanciunas & Ross. I have always liked Johnson, but admittedly did think he would be best served as the Raptors' 3rd big (and still would prefer a traditional post-up PF to be starting for the Raptors long-term, but Amir has impressed me this season).

    My assumption was that rebuilding/retooling would result in the team losing more games, which I felt was an acceptable trade-off this season, given the loaded 2014 draft. I never wanted the Raptors to "tank". I wanted MU to rebuild/retool this team properly; if their own 2014 1st round pick positioning were to improve as a by-product of a proper team-building strategy finally being implemented and followed in Toronto, then that would simply be the icing on the cake.

    You may not understand the nuances between that approach and an outright "tank", but that's on you, not me. Unfortunately, you and others lumped me in as a "tanker" early on this season, simply because I mentioned trading away good players and the 2014 draft in the same plan, without taking the time to understand it.
    Last edited by CalgaryRapsFan; Thu Jan 2nd, 2014, 06:16 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • special1
    replied
    stooley wrote: View Post
    Your posts are bordering on offensive.

    You should read the thread I made a little while ago with regards to anti-tankers. CRF along with many others made long, well thought out posts. You might learn something.

    http://www.raptorsrepublic.com/forum...t=anti-tankers

    That thread was made before this turn around.
    You don't get it. I don't think CalgaryRapsFan was ever actually a pro-tanker.

    "If tanking means "purposefully lose (at least at the GM level) to improve own draft positioning", then I've never been in favor of tanking." ...thats what CalgaryRapsFan said in your thread.


    http://www.raptorsrepublic.com/forum...t=anti-tankers

    How is rebuilding/re-tooling synonymous with tanking? Why is he acting like he speaks for pro-tankers when we all know that most pro-tankers wanted us to tank for our own high pick. EVERYONE and their grandmother knows that no team would trade a top 5 pick in this draft. Sorry, I should say its VERY unlikely.

    Leave a comment:


  • psrs1
    replied
    special1 wrote: View Post
    Honestly, I think you should accept some responsibility around here. I noticed your bias for your pro-tanker friends a long time ago. The truth is you mis-lead a lot of posters. Rebuilding/re-tooling can be done without tanking. However, you decided to lump yourself in with the most ardent pro-tankers.

    Pro-tankers walk a VERY thin line. You want to be looked at as supporting your team and you say you want the team to win......Yet deep inside you want us to lose so that we can have a CHANCE at a top 5 pick.

    I'm sorry BUT i don't agree with the way pro-tankers hijacked this site. It's pretty disgusting - looking at the loss of integrity around these parts. I enjoy seeing you guys scramble to make your way back to the right side. This is where you belong! It's great to see our fans come together and support this team (this group of guys playing their asses off for our city). THIS is what we anti-tankers were asking for! If you secretly want the team to lose to get a top pick.....keep it to yourself. We want our young guys to win NOW.

    Some pro-tankers can change the rhetoric now, but i think its best to admit that you didn't believe in this team. You finally received the "proof" you were waiting for and now your ready to support this team (playoffs or no playoffs). Jump on the bandwagon pro-tankers! It's all good! You too Matt52!
    Be careful the tank brigade will have you in their sites. You echo what many fans think.

    Leave a comment:


  • stooley
    replied
    special1 wrote: View Post
    LOL - Please give it a rest. We know exactly what you wanted. You repeat yourself almost as much as Tim W. does.....and thats saying a lot! lol You called yourself a "pro-tanker" and changed the meaning sooooo many times so that you can fit yourself into it. I used you and Matt52 as an example for a reason. I remember telling you that i would never let you get away with the things that you wrote about this team. Your opinions were set in stone (well sorta - now you don't push for trading Demar or Amir as much as you used to). To be honest, you softened a lot on your stances.

    However....

    You don't get to pretend that you wanted this core to stay together. You don't get to act like you believed in this core.

    Going back a year.....I can't forget how bad you and Matt52 REALLY wanted Rudy Gay. You guys wanted him sooooo bad! I'm just going to be a real fan and say it.....so far it looks like you guys are often wrong.

    Maybe you need to get off your high horse?? You know just as much as anyone else on here. Repeating the same tanking crap won't change shit. You can stop with your condescending posts too. If it appears that i'm on a high horse its only because yours appears so low right now.

    I never thought tanking was a good option for the Raps because we simply had too much talent. How could we get into the top 5 without taking back bad players/contracts? Did you honestly think someone was going to give up their top 10 pick in this draft?? I really thought you were smarter than this. Look at your avatar! You should be ashamed that your still pushing that tanking crap. It's not going to happen......maybe at some point it will sink in.....someday!
    Your posts are bordering on offensive.

    You should read the thread I made a little while ago with regards to anti-tankers. CRF along with many others made long, well thought out posts. You might learn something.

    http://www.raptorsrepublic.com/forum...t=anti-tankers

    That thread was made before this turn around.

    Leave a comment:

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