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Was the 06-07 team really such a bad place to be?

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  • Was the 06-07 team really such a bad place to be?

    Many people are talking about this season's possible success as fool's gold and comparing it to the 2006-2007 division title winning season.

    I would argue that a series of poor moves and bad luck following that campaign led to Bosh's departure and the team's poor performance.

    Garbo's gruesome ankle shatter really hurt the team. He was a heart guy who played tough, a little like Amir.

    The Jermaine O'Neal saga was shortsighted and misguided. We could have drafted Hibbert and turned TJ Ford and Rasho into an asset more valuable than Jermaine.

    Kapono was terrible and didn't offer much more than Novak has.

    And the greatest blunder: Turkoglu.

    With some smart moves there, maybe the raptors could have maintained some forward momentum, offered hope to Bosh and MAYBE been a little more convincing in resigning him, or at least traded him for something in return.
    Last edited by stooley; Wed Jan 1st, 2014, 06:12 PM.
    "Bruno?
    Heh, if he is in the D-league still in a few years I will be surprised.
    He's terrible."

    -Superjudge, 7/23

    Hope you're wrong.

  • #2
    Also, hopefully this team will show more internal development than that team did. Our better players aren't likely to leave (except Lowry, and we coulllld sign him). And I have my fingers crossed that JV's career arc won't be like Primo's
    "Bruno?
    Heh, if he is in the D-league still in a few years I will be surprised.
    He's terrible."

    -Superjudge, 7/23

    Hope you're wrong.

    Comment


    • #3
      All very good points, and I would add one more off the top of my head: This starting line-up, or core if you will, is so much younger and developing, compared to that 06-07 team. What BC was doing was putting mostly veteran players together in an attempt to win NOW. What this team represents is a young core with talent, under development, that if allowed to develop together, could well be the base to build upon.

      I'm not saying MU NEEDS to stick with this core. I'd expect that he's always looking for ways to get better, but I feel he has a decent starting point that is significantly better than that 06-07 team, as building blocks/trade-chips.

      Comment


      • #4
        stooley wrote: View Post
        Also, hopefully this team will show more internal development than that team did. Our better players aren't likely to leave (except Lowry, and we coulllld sign him). And I have my fingers crossed that JV's career arc won't be like Primo's
        You can uncross your fingers, that won't be happening
        "Stop eating your sushi."
        "I do actually have a pair of Uggs."
        "I've had three cups of green tea tonight. I'm wired. I'm absolutely wired."
        - Jack Armstrong

        Comment


        • #5
          I guess the concern was that the 2006-2007 season was 'wasteful'. What I mean is that pretty much the same core team the following season got to .500 and the only meaningful addition was Kapono.

          Assuming Lowry stays put and the Raptors get that 4th seed.. there is a possibility that the team does worse next season. I say that because some of the bad teams in the East this year could be better than the Raptors next year. And if that happens will this year be a waste of a year as well?

          I personally don't believe that a taste for the playoffs really does much for a player.. especially if the team doesn't really have a super star who would benefit from that taste.

          MU has options.. he'll have cap space, can make trades and has a draft pick. The draft pick could be mediocre though (he's a good drafter but with a pick in the 16-17 range he may end up with a decent bench player but not a starter), the free agency class looks meh, and teams may not want to make their allstar type talent available via trades. As such the dial may not move much for the Raptors for them to get better.. and that's a cause for concern for at least me.

          We'll see what happens.

          Comment


          • #6
            stooley wrote: View Post
            Many people are talking about this season's possible success as fool's gold and comparing it to the 2006-2007 division title winning season.

            I would argue that a series of poor moves and bad luck following that campaign led to Bosh's departure and the team's poor performance.

            Garbo's gruesome ankle shatter really hurt the team. He was a heart guy who played tough, a little like Amir.

            The Jermaine O'Neal saga was shortsighted and misguided. We could have drafted Hibbert and turned TJ Ford and Rasho into an asset more valuable than Jermaine.

            Kapono was terrible and didn't offer much more than Novak has.

            And the greatest blunder: Turkoglu.

            With some smart moves there, maybe the raptors could have maintained some forward momentum, offered hope to Bosh and MAYBE been a little more convincing in resigning him, or at least traded him for something in return.
            You don't win 47 games by fluke. The 06-07 team was a very good squad. Had the Raptors kept their pick for the 07 draft, the pick would not have been Hibbert. It was widely speculated that the team was quite high on JJ Hickson.

            And lastly, I'm happy that Bosh didn't re-sign with us. 18-19 million plus per season for a guy who isn't an alpha male star is just too much.

            Comment


            • #7
              +1,000,000

              Comment


              • #8
                MangoKid wrote: View Post
                You don't win 47 games by fluke. The 06-07 team was a very good squad. Had the Raptors kept their pick for the 07 draft, the pick would not have been Hibbert. It was widely speculated that the team was quite high on JJ Hickson.

                And lastly, I'm happy that Bosh didn't re-sign with us. 18-19 million plus per season for a guy who isn't an alpha male star is just too much.
                The 2007 pick went to Charlotte (via Cleveland) and was the 22nd pick in the draft that year... ended up being Dudley. The Hibbert pick was in 2008.

                Comment


                • #9
                  to me the big one was garbo. without that chip falling we never try to sign hedo.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Making the playoffs and picking up a solid player in the draft seems like the best route. I wanna see Masai do with Lowry, what he did with Nene. Re-sign him and then ship him on draft night

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post
                      Making the playoffs and picking up a solid player in the draft seems like the best route. I wanna see Masai do with Lowry, what he did with Nene. Re-sign him and then ship him on draft night
                      Free agents can only be traded 2 months after they are signed. That usually means around December 15.. so if Lowry is resigned he'll be on the roster opening night.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Lowry really is the key cog here. What Masai does with Lowry, should be the biggest talking point between now and the deadline.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          06/07 was similar in that the competition was weak. It was completely different in that the Raptors roster was established and capped out with almost no room for internal growth. This roster is completely different - it's much younger, Ross and JV have a lot of room for growth, DD and Amir are still developing, and there's significant financial/roster flexibility coming up in the next couple years. There's a lot of wiggle room for a GM here.

                          Agreed that, while the whole team has been playing well, Lowry is really the catalyst here. I still can't believe how flippantly his performance and impact are being dismissed by most Raptors fans. But he's got contract year red flags all over the place, and if he's moved before the deadline (which he should be), this team is completely changed. The Raps will not be the same at all with Vasquez running the point and Scrub X backing him up.
                          "We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            This team is different.
                            Different character.

                            Bosh, the leader, was soft, rememeber a year later when the team was floundering down the stretch... this famous nugget, blaming fans for not winning games;

                            "We have some of the best fans in the league, and you can't tell me they can't make noise, because in the playoffs it's ridiculous," Bosh said Thursday.
                            consider Lowry said this yesterday;

                            "That's what we needed in this building. We want our fans to have a reason to cheer and I think we're giving 'em a reason to cheer."
                            Now I was angry in 08, and gus on the forum i used to go to ripped me, they said I had no idea what I was talking about. Well this is what I was talking about, and this is the difference in the two players, and leaders. One defers responsibility when the going gets tough, or, "loser behavior". The other, accepts responsibility and shows the heart of a "winner".

                            Now granted, Lowry IMO has only just started to truly lead, but he's doing it, and something tells me he has finally "gotten it". Some guys need to grow up, and some guys take longer. This new KL, well, he appears to be everything you could ask. Compared to the Bosh of old, a good guy, but a poor leader..... I see this as a fundamental difference in these teams.

                            If the team were seeing right now, with maybe a tweak here and there, is the team that enters the playoffs....this will NOT be an easy out for anyone, they will go down fighting. The other guys were good, but they went down... not like lambs, but no where close to lions.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Craig wrote: View Post
                              This team is different.
                              Different character.

                              Bosh, the leader, was soft, rememeber a year later when the team was floundering down the stretch... this famous nugget, blaming fans for not winning games;



                              consider Lowry said this yesterday;



                              Now I was angry in 08, and gus on the forum i used to go to ripped me, they said I had no idea what I was talking about. Well this is what I was talking about, and this is the difference in the two players, and leaders. One defers responsibility when the going gets tough, or, "loser behavior". The other, accepts responsibility and shows the heart of a "winner".

                              Now granted, Lowry IMO has only just started to truly lead, but he's doing it, and something tells me he has finally "gotten it". Some guys need to grow up, and some guys take longer. This new KL, well, he appears to be everything you could ask. Compared to the Bosh of old, a good guy, but a poor leader..... I see this as a fundamental difference in these teams.

                              If the team were seeing right now, with maybe a tweak here and there, is the team that enters the playoffs....this will NOT be an easy out for anyone, they will go down fighting. The other guys were good, but they went down... not like lambs, but no where close to lions.
                              The Triano/Bosh teams were definite front-runners. The offence was good and played at a high level when the pressure was off, but they were easy to shut down in the playoffs, to rough up, and to intimidate.

                              The character of this team is night and day different. Tough, good defense, and an offense that's fine with grinding out games. I can't believe the TORONTO RAPTORS have "won" 10 of the last 12 4th quarters. Has this ever happened before?

                              In last night's broadcasts they quoted one of the young guys (Ross?) as having said that Lowry and Amir are the team's leaders. That's fantastic. If you look at this roster and ask whose personalities you want dominating the locker room and setting the tone, it would be Lowry and Amir hands down. Don't underestimate how much JV and Hansbrough help toughen up this team, though. Those guys battle hard.

                              Still remember duing the OKC game, their broadcasters said, during the 3rd quarter "Nothing's coming easy for the Thunder right now. The offense is just hard." I couldn't believe my ears. The best scorer in the league was playing the Toronto Raptors, and his broadcasters just said it was tough...

                              Long-term-thinking me still wants to move Lowry for future prospects for the sake of a higher ceiling and long-term growth. Short-term-this-team-history-has-generally-sucked me wants to keep the team in tact, compete for the best possible outcome in the playoffs, and move forward with the internal development that's very attainable and the roster flexibility moving forward, which is in good enough shape for a guy like Ujiri.
                              "We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard

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