Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Was the 06-07 team really such a bad place to be?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    06/07 as a stand alone season was a perfectly fine team.

    It had no shortage of quality basketball players, they were rather young and they had depth to go with the starting line up.

    The problem was the future prospects of that team to compete at an elite level.

    Now Colangelo, without question, made mistakes as time went on - mistakes that made the team at best no better, or more fairly put, worse. An obvious example was replacing Mo Pete with Kapono. Injuries happened aswell - TJ and Garbo. But that is hardly evidence that said team would have been able to compete at the top otherwise. Its not like Bosh was traded for nothing (atleast for 3 more years ) in that time period, or the Raptors lost a Derek Rose to injury like Chicago has.

    It absolutely needed 'star' talent to compete with the best/better teams even in the east. Whether a superstar, or a couple more allstars to add to Bosh. The problem was, it had no reasonable way of adding that to the roster, and almost definetely not without giving up the players it had and needed to keep to stay at the top.

    In the mean time, those teams that were 'bad' when Toronto was 'good' were adding talent, whether through trade, FA, draft or some combination of them, because of the high value assets they were collecting.

    Lets envision this scenario. Garbo and TJ aren't injured, Colangelo doesn't sign Kapono and we just pretend that money remains 'free'. Is Jose (or TJ) + Garbo (or Parker) + 6 mil+ in cap space going to net a superstar? Multiple allstars?

    This is much the same situation today as it was then. The one advantage that 06/07 team had this roster doesn't was a #1 overall pick that wasn't needed to win games and therefore was expendable if so desired, although given Barg's rookie season it wasn't like he had a Blake Griffin, Rose, Anthony Davis etc. level rookie year that looked very promising (ofcourse then you aren't trading him.... but thats neither here nor there). None the less, there is nothing of that potential value, that the team can afford to sacrifice, right now. Sure Jonas could be traded for, I would think, a very good return - but now would that not be creating a huge hole smack dab in the middle of this roster?

    This is the issue in the NBA - high value assets are valuable. You need to give, and therefore have, and therefore also afford to be able to offer, high value assets to get valuable 'stuff' in return and therefore improve. Anything else is either getting lucky, or hoping to get lucky in some future event that is very favourable to the team (a late 1st round superstar or allstar(s) or a James Harden for cheap). There is a reason those type of events are incredibly rare.

    Its easy to get better in the NBA, it really is. Its hard to get better when you reached that 50+ (or so) game ceiling. You need that stud(s) developing on your team who can take you over that hump, or high end assets you can afford to offer in return for a stud (or ofcourse be a premier market and buy your player). Being able to achieve greatness while not have one of those two things IS where the 'luck' happens in the NBA.

    Comment


    • #17
      Nilanka wrote: View Post
      Lowry really is the key cog here. What Masai does with Lowry, should be the biggest talking point between now and the deadline.
      That's why it may be worthwhile to extend him now if can get a reasonable deal don't. Extending him would not necessarily preclude future trade

      Comment


      • #18
        stooley wrote: View Post
        Many people are talking about this season's possible success as fool's gold and comparing it to the 2006-2007 division title winning season.

        I would argue that a series of poor moves and bad luck following that campaign led to Bosh's departure and the team's poor performance.

        Garbo's gruesome ankle shatter really hurt the team. He was a heart guy who played tough, a little like Amir.

        The Jermaine O'Neal saga was shortsighted and misguided. We could have drafted Hibbert and turned TJ Ford and Rasho into an asset more valuable than Jermaine.

        Kapono was terrible and didn't offer much more than Novak has.

        And the greatest blunder: Turkoglu.

        With some smart moves there, maybe the raptors could have maintained some forward momentum, offered hope to Bosh and MAYBE been a little more convincing in resigning him, or at least traded him for something in return.
        I liked the "bend but not break" style of play of the 07 group. Good ole Rasho, Garbo et al. They had some character. However, I never felt like they had a direction, like a core of young players that you could build on.

        I think that's the biggest difference.

        Also, my impression was that Colangelo envisioned a Bosh/Bargnani/TJ Ford trifecta of dominance, that obviously never played out.

        Comment


        • #19
          I miss Garbo. And always thought Rasho was under rated for what he provided the team.

          I don't think todays Raptors are anything like that team. I believe they are better positioned today to improve, but Craigers point about improving once you have reached the 50+ wins mark being difficult is spot on. I'd rather have Masai running things than BC. The Raps are fortunate in that.

          Comment


          • #20
            Puffer wrote: View Post
            I miss Garbo. And always thought Rasho was under rated for what he provided the team.

            I don't think todays Raptors are anything like that team. I believe they are better positioned today to improve, but Craigers point about improving once you have reached the 50+ wins mark being difficult is spot on. I'd rather have Masai running things than BC. The Raps are fortunate in that.
            If Masai was the GM in 06/07 I believe the situation would have been alot different for the better
            "Both teams played hard my man" - Sheed

            Comment


            • #21
              4hunnit_degreez wrote: View Post
              If Masai was the GM in 06/07 I believe the situation would have been alot different for the better
              don't think so. bc was looking after the team in that case. he wanted garbs to be ready for his nba job and commit to his teammates. if the injury never happened the issue doesn't happen but i think bc handled that situation well and garbo made his choice.

              Comment


              • #22
                S.R. wrote: View Post
                The Triano/Bosh teams were definite front-runners. The offence was good and played at a high level when the pressure was off, but they were easy to shut down in the playoffs, to rough up, and to intimidate.

                The character of this team is night and day different. Tough, good defense, and an offense that's fine with grinding out games. I can't believe the TORONTO RAPTORS have "won" 10 of the last 12 4th quarters. Has this ever happened before?

                In last night's broadcasts they quoted one of the young guys (Ross?) as having said that Lowry and Amir are the team's leaders. That's fantastic. If you look at this roster and ask whose personalities you want dominating the locker room and setting the tone, it would be Lowry and Amir hands down. Don't underestimate how much JV and Hansbrough help toughen up this team, though. Those guys battle hard.

                Still remember duing the OKC game, their broadcasters said, during the 3rd quarter "Nothing's coming easy for the Thunder right now. The offense is just hard." I couldn't believe my ears. The best scorer in the league was playing the Toronto Raptors, and his broadcasters just said it was tough...

                Long-term-thinking me still wants to move Lowry for future prospects for the sake of a higher ceiling and long-term growth. Short-term-this-team-history-has-generally-sucked me wants to keep the team in tact, compete for the best possible outcome in the playoffs, and move forward with the internal development that's very attainable and the roster flexibility moving forward, which is in good enough shape for a guy like Ujiri.
                Perfect post, and the bold text is a big one.

                It's clear that this team underwent some internal development, because I remember last year when the Raptors would roll with a starting lineup of Lowry/DeRozan/Ross/Johnson/Valanciunas, they were either beaten up, destroyed, embarrassed, disrespected, and I'm sure you get the point.

                Now, it's the complete opposite. JV has grown into a much more complete player - still raw - but he's got some of those fundamentals down packed. Ross is playing with confidence, and he's more comfortable on the floor; he's just understanding the game a little better.

                Lowry is FINALLY, and I emphasize, FINALLY, healthy. Lowry was a borderline all-star player with Houston, before he was plagued with terrible injuries which never allowed him to return to the level of play he was at when that past season started. He is a top 10 point guard when healthy, and I've been saying it since he was acquired. He's changed his maturity level; he finally understands what a point guard needs to do, and what a leader is all about. He's become the team's engine, and is finally showing the fans and the organization that he truly DOES hold the "keys to the car."

                DeRozan, not to mention, has improved his floor game mightily. His shooting percentages since the trade haven't been great, but there's an effort level he consistently plays at now, which is a sight to see. His defense has really improved, and while he isn't what I would call a lock-down or skilled defender - one I would call Allen, Sefolosha, etc. - but he plays with some sort of mindset on that end of the floor now. DeMar is also getting the respect of the officials - finally - and getting to the rim much more then he did last season, BUT, DeMar, we have to hold you accountable, your free throw shooting percentages are down, be consistent at the line is all I'm asking.
                His ability to finally come down with rebounds, pass the ball and play-make, finally be somewhat of a threat from the perimeter, and continuing to do what he does best; attack the rim, has been the reason he is a topic of discussion when talking about Raptors in the All-Star game. He's also filled that 4th quarter go-to-guy role, and he's done a superb job. An example of this, was against the Pacers, Wednesday night.

                Then you start to fill in those role players in Vasquez, Salmons, Hansbrough, Patterson, those spot players in terms of situations i.e. defense, shooting, injury in Fields, Novak, Hayes, Stone, Buycks, and Daye, and maybe some of you will hate me, but the coaching of Dwane Casey, and you've got a - low key - talented team.

                Dwane Casey deserves some credit, after the trade, he finally has 9 players that he can trust and depend on consistently, which was a thing he did not have with Gay - "star", but playing terrible - Quincy Acy - who is a second year, fringe rotational player - and Aaron Gray (must I say more?). He also has been able to keep certain guys humbled and focused into the task at hand, with the trade first happening and coming out with great efforts with a short-handed team, then Lowry-trade talks, new guys coming, and then still being able to build winning ways.

                I like the direction, and winning does solve a lot of things. If the Raptors can make the playoffs - looks almost impossible for this team not to get a seed in the Eastern conference, especially - it would be HUGE to the development of JV, Ross, and to an extent, DeRozan. Don't forget, Masai is terrific in drafting late; he's got the 1st round pick, Kings' second rounder, Suns' second rounder, Bucks' second rounder, and the Knicks' second rounder. Masai has a lot of trade assets in picks alone. http://www.prosportstransactions.com...re/Raptors.htm

                Some want tanking, and some want Wiggins/Parker/Randle/Exum/Smart, etc. But, the development of a winning mindset can lead to a higher standard of play. Right now, whether this team will be able to get over the hump with or without that superstar player (could it be JV?), they're headed in the right direction, and it's hard to argue that. 15-15, 4th in the East, 1st in the Atlantic, 4-game winning streak, and beating better teams and beating teams they should. It's finally fun to watch this team play basketball again.
                Last edited by ReubenJRD; Fri Jan 3rd, 2014, 01:23 AM.
                Twitter: @ReubenJRD NBA, Raptors writer for Daily Hive Vancouver, Toronto.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Is it his health or is it it maturity?

                  he has his health because of his maturity.

                  As for his play, he dodn't play like this in houston, or ever. The KL were seeing now is new. I like it, and I hope it isn't just a passing phase.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Craig wrote: View Post
                    Is it his health or is it it maturity?

                    he has his health because of his maturity.

                    As for his play, he dodn't play like this in houston, or ever. The KL were seeing now is new. I like it, and I hope it isn't just a passing phase.
                    He's growing up, and maybe that's the answer to why Kyle is the Kyle he is today. I hope we re-sign him, he has obviously committed himself to this city and franchise, and mainly because we've shown the most commitment to him as a team since he's come into the league. Memphis decided to let go of him, and Houston had problems with him. The Raptors happily welcomed him, and has been given a role that he must grow up to take control of.
                    Twitter: @ReubenJRD NBA, Raptors writer for Daily Hive Vancouver, Toronto.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      I wonder though, is he just THAT determined. Could he be so focused upon improving no matter what, so he can then leave for a ring?

                      I suppose its a position many Toronto fans find themselves in, not being able to trust that a player might actually choose to stay.

                      KL, if he does commit, and is indeed finally having one giant Eureka moment, is an absolute gem. I say this, and I'm certain you will agree, because he is chalk full of substance. He isn't a facade of a real player, he's just a player. He competes, he's tough, he isn't afraid of hard work or getting run over.... thats a playoff player. You get one of them on your squad, a guy that can also score.... well thats called a piece!!!

                      Comment

                      Working...
                      X