What the Raptors are missing? (Points Per Shot)

[p00ka]

Ah yes Lowry was "as good as traded"

Well obviously you never quite know about these things but it was widely reported that Dolan stepped in at the last minute to squash that deal. CBS, NBC, NY Daily News and others all ran the story.

It was "widely reported" that one journalist, Woj, reported an unsubstantiated "rumour". A thousand media outlets could have reported it and it still wouldn't have been anything more than an unsubstantiated rumour from one journalist. C'mon, I know many put a lot of faith in the guy, but he has been way off before, and will be again.

Did talks take place? No doubt, along with talks with a load of other teams that called. Did the specific reported offer take place? Unless one was in the room, near impossible to tell, but assume it did: the RUMOUR that was reported was basically MU taking the call, and proposing a deal that the Knicks were bound to turn down. With all the picks they've already traded away, including to the Raps, the NY media would have been ripping Dolan to shreds, likely for years, if that had gone down.

Nothing about this story says Lowry "was as good as gone". That's just a common case of internet rumours turning into fact in the minds of some.

[Fully]

It was "widely reported" that one journalist, Woj, reported an unsubstantiated "rumour". A thousand media outlets could have reported it and it still wouldn't have been anything more than an unsubstantiated rumour from one journalist. C'mon, I know many put a lot of faith in the guy, but he has been way off before, and will be again.

Did talks take place? No doubt, along with talks with a load of other teams that called. Did the specific reported offer take place? Unless one was in the room, near impossible to tell, but assume it did: the RUMOUR that was reported was basically MU taking the call, and proposing a deal that the Knicks were bound to turn down. With all the picks they've already traded away, including to the Raps, the NY media would have been ripping Dolan to shreds, likely for years, if that had gone down.

Nothing about this story says Lowry "was as good as gone". That's just a common case of internet rumours turning into fact in the minds of some.

I thought I made it clear that stories involving "sources" are privy to some skepticism. But it was reported by Woj - twice actually - one story where Dolan vetoed the original deal and a second story the following day where the other Knicks brass were trying to change his mind and allow the deal to go through. It also appeared in other outlets (NY Daily news for example) that cited different sources. That is all I was trying to say and if you re-read it, that is all that I said.

Maybe he was just making the entire thing up though. Solid argument that because I wasn't in the room I would have no idea what actually happened, except when it can be so easily flipped around to the other side as well.

[CalgaryRapsFan]

I appreciate you following around anyone you've argued with in recent months and trying to prove them wrong any time they happen to post but you probably need to read my original comment again. I thought I made it clear that stories involving "sources" are privy to some skepticism. But it was reported by Woj - twice actually - one story where Dolan vetoed the original deal and a second story the following day where the other Knicks brass were trying to change his mind and allow the deal to go through. It also appeared in other outlets (NY Daily news for example) that cited different sources. That is all I was trying to say and if you re-read it, that is all that I said.

Maybe he was just making the entire thing up though. Solid argument that because I wasn't in the room I would have no idea what actually happened, except when it can be so easily flipped around to the other side as well.

You could have made your point without leading off with a personal jab.

[Fully]

Will you and your other butt hurt pal get off this whiney high horse of yours. You're way to full of your little self if you think I'm following you around. You made a post, I responded to it, with my take on the matter. What's disrespectful about what I said? With an opening like that, I can't be bothered to read the rest of what is likely more lame whiney crap. boo effing hoo if you feel hurt by what i said. Christ, some peoples' children

I guess you need to re-read my last post as well because I never said you were being disrespectful, or that I was hurt in the least. You responded to my comment and I did the same to yours in kind. I'm truly not interested in an internet 'feud' - I just like talking about the Raptors on here. The butt hurt comment was ironic though.

[Fully]

You could have made your point without leading off with a personal jab.

You're right. Edited.

[p00ka]

edit: nevermind, dealt with

[CalgaryRapsFan]

But you double up his totally uncalled for "jab" (I'd call it something else, but), yet delete the response. Fair, eh.

I highlighted the part of his reply that was unnecessary, to be clear with the original poster and anybody else who was reading my post to him.

His message was left because the rest of it was on topic and legitimate. I had thought about editing his post to remove it, but I personally don't like editing other posters' posts.

Your reply that got deleted was nothing but a personal retort (yes, I know he started it, but he also acknowledged it), so it was deleted.

The bottom line is that disrespectful or insulting posts, or posts directed at fellow posters instead of the topic of the thread, will not be tolerated from anyone.

[.40 Cal Flakes]

The bottom line is that disrespectful or insulting posts, or posts directed at fellow posters instead of the topic of the thread, will not be tolerated from anyone.

This.

[magoon]

We need a scorer.

Right now the Raptors are 6th overall in defensive efficiency (behind Indiana, Chicago, OKC, Golden State and San Antonio). You'll note that four of the five teams ahead of us are serious championship contenders (and Chicago would have been if injuries hadn't gotten in the way).

However, in offensive efficiency, we're stuck in the middle of the pack at 15th. Zach Lowe's column today about Phoenix points out that contending teams are usually top-10 in both categories, and the four teams that are top-10 in both offensive and defensive efficiency (San Antonio, Miami, OKC and the Clippers) are all obviously contenders as well. (Golden State is tied for 13th but are only .3 of a point away from being 11th.)

What this means is: Toronto's playoff chances this year improve if we can get a scorer, preferably a scoring wing since our big rotation is set up nicely. Now, Masai isn't going to pull a Colangelo and over-spend to get a scorer because we're in win-now mode - we're not. We should not throw away draft picks in order to rent Evan Turner or Gordon Hayward for half a season. But some scoring punch this season could go a long way towards making us more competitive in the playoffs - and consequently making all of our players that much more valuable as trade assets.

Gary Neal is the name I keep coming back to: he's a reliable 3-and-D sixth man type (shooting .42 from 3 this year), he's unhappy on the Bucks, getting in arguments with LARRY SANDERS! (their star), and his contract isn't terrible: $3.2 million this year and next. He should not be expensive given the possibility Milwaukee might just want to get rid of him.

There are also two riskier options. The first is Eric Gordon. New Orleans wants to move him and it's going to be nearly impossible for them to do it given his awful contract - but he's $14m this year, next year, and then a player option the following year. If New Orleans is looking to shed Gordon just to create salary relief, then I would strongly consider signing him and playing him as a (very expensive) sixth man and then trading him later. If we could, for example, get Gordon for Hayes/Novak, I would probably strongly consider it.

The second, and much much riskier option, is JR Smith. We would only take Smith if New York ALSO gives us picks: it's a "make the headache go away" trade for them, and we then give Smith a little time to see if he can be a sixth man and if a change of scenery doesn't fix things or he can't stop being a horrible cancer - well, that's what the stretch provision is for. But when Smith is on he's ON, and that's something we could potentially use.

[CalgaryRapsFan]

Threads merged, since both are essentially pointing out the need for the team to add a scorer.

[ceez]

We've come back to this again and again but what about Barnes?

The guy is, by definition, a pure scorer. I agree with Matt (RIP) that Derozen would be best served playing sixth man role, while actually getting the bulk of minutes. Reality is though that they need to get Demar's minutes down. He's playing too many. Issue you may have though is the chemistry he's built with Ross and of course, the other starters. Barnes though, you could have come off the bench and play heavy minutes too. Between Demar/Ross/Barnes that would be a hell of a nice swing corp.

Getting Barnes, or even if he's on MU's radar at all, of course would be the issue.

[magoon]

We've come back to this again and again but what about Barnes?

Barnes would be fine, but I don't think the Clippers are going to trade a productive member of their bench when they're in win-now mode. Who could we conceivably offer?

[white men can't jump]

We've come back to this again and again but what about Barnes?

The guy is, by definition, a pure scorer. I agree with Matt (RIP) that Derozen would be best served playing sixth man role, while actually getting the bulk of minutes. Reality is though that they need to get Demar's minutes down. He's playing too many. Issue you may have though is the chemistry he's built with Ross and of course, the other starters. Barnes though, you could have come off the bench and play heavy minutes too. Between Demar/Ross/Barnes that would be a hell of a nice swing corp.

Getting Barnes, or even if he's on MU's radar at all, of course would be the issue.

I don't think Barnes is the answer. I don't see him as a better scorer than either DeMar or Lowry. I don't think it would be a bad acquisition, but I don't see how you get him without taking away from the current rotation, which is the biggest issue. He's a good shooter, and that's the biggest plus, but he's not more of a go-to option than the guys we have, and I can't imagine his pricetag being palatable.

If you're going to get a top-tier scorer, which this team kinda needs, and Barnes is not yet, then it's costly, and I agree with magoon that it's unlikely Masai goes into win-now mode and makes a costly deal.

The bench option is interesting and more likely, but I'm not sure it really makes a big difference. Still though, since it could feasibly be accomplished without sacrificing any of our solid rotation players, it's probably the most realistic option, and in the case discussed above, Neal makes a lot of sense. If they can nab him for say, Novak, or Hayes, or basically any combination of our guys who are out of the rotation, that's a decent deal. Neal can shoot, can also do a bit more with the ball in his hands, can play sort of combo guard style duties so he's insurance at both backcourt spots, and has legit playoff experience from his days in San Antonio. That type of acquisition seems realistic and potentially helpful to me.

Still though, in the playoffs the tough part will be for the Raptors to create something out of nothing when the game slows down and the ball sticks more. We don't have a LBJ, KD, Curry, Harden, Parker, CP3 type guy who can just manufacture decent shots by being able to put pressure on the D on his own, even being able to break down double teams and such. But yeah, I don't see a pursuit of such a type of player as likely or worthwhile in cost at this point, so seeing if some added offensive depth helps in the form of a Neal-type guy is a good enough option B.

[CalgaryRapsFan]

We've come back to this again and again but what about Barnes?

The guy is, by definition, a pure scorer. I agree with Matt (RIP) that Derozen would be best served playing sixth man role, while actually getting the bulk of minutes. Reality is though that they need to get Demar's minutes down. He's playing too many. Issue you may have though is the chemistry he's built with Ross and of course, the other starters. Barnes though, you could have come off the bench and play heavy minutes too. Between Demar/Ross/Barnes that would be a hell of a nice swing corp.

Getting Barnes, or even if he's on MU's radar at all, of course would be the issue.

Barnes would be fine, but I don't think the Clippers are going to trade a productive member of their bench when they're in win-now mode. Who could we conceivably offer?

I thought ceez was referring to the GS/Harrison variety Barnes.

[magoon]

Additional idea:

Mike Dunleavy. Chicago doesn't need him now and it would be nice to have one of the great Raptor-killers on OUR team for once, and he's a good defender too. More expensive than Neal, certainly (Chicago has no incentive to get rid of him on the cheap) but also definitely better. He MIGHT be worth, say, that 2017 New York second-rounder.