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  • #76
    CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    You saw what I wrote to p00ka about being condescending, that goes both ways.
    I was going for sarcastic actually.
    Heir, Prince of Cambridge

    If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

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    • #77
      .40 Cal Flakes wrote: View Post
      NO.

      p00ka I'm gonna be honest with you here, you are coming off as condescending in tone man. If you don't agree with Axel or CRF or anyone else for that matter leave it at that man. Leave all the conjecture out (in regards to other posters opinions/posts). Like S.R. hashtags...all we got are opinions.

      Ohh and screw tanking.

      Edit: same goes for you Axel leave the condescending tone out. Thank you.
      Seriously, this condescending tag that continually gets thrown at me is insanely one-sided, imo. The threads in this forum is so full of such condescending statements from so many posters, but the only time I see the word is in reference to me. I am trying to tone down, but use what I see to try and guage what's acceptable and what's not. I've seen far worse on here than anything I say, yet see no reprimands or censures. Look around man. There's so called condescending ALL OVER the place.

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      • #78
        p00ka wrote: View Post
        Seriously, this condescending tag that continually gets thrown at me is insanely one-sided, imo. The threads in this forum is so full of such condescending statements from so many posters, but the only time I see the word is in reference to me. I am trying to tone down, but use what I see to try and guage what's acceptable and what's not. I've seen far worse on here than anything I say, yet see no reprimands or censures. Look around man. There's so called condescending ALL OVER the place.
        FWIW I didn't take your posts as condescending. Me thinks the mods are all on full watch mode after the Matt fall-out
        Heir, Prince of Cambridge

        If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

        Comment


        • #79
          If there are any questions or concerns from any member please PM any of the mods. Lets try to keep the threads clear of clutter. #StopTheHijack

          Cheers

          Did I mention screw tanking

          Now back to your regularly scheduled program.
          Last edited by .40 Cal Flakes; Thu Jan 9, 2014, 07:57 PM.

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          • #80
            http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-tr...o-to-the-wheel

            Ever since reading Zach Lowe's article that goes over "The Wheel" I've been convinced that this would be the best way to eliminate rewarding teams for losing. Yes, the counter arguments of "If Milwaukee had the 1st pick next year and LA the next, the college player would wait an extra year etc." but at the end of the day, this method would give teams a fair shot at top level talent every few years and eliminate the need to reward bad teams.

            We will see what Silver has in store for the NBA's next generation, but from what I hear he is very much an "outside the box" type thinker. Imagine going into every NBA season with teams having ZERO incentive to losing......
            Your ex came by; you can call me Jonas Valanciunas, cause I'm the king of rebounds!

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            • #81
              Just a suggestion...I think most of the longer term posters here have a good feel for the discussion "styles" of most. If one doesn't like the tone or tenor of responses, say so in one reply and then stop further discussion with the poster (at least in that thread)...rather than let it degenerate into what seems to be an exercise in one upmanship happening a bit frequently lately. Testosterone levels alert! The mods do a good job and cant police everything...posters need to do it themselves sometimes. Unsolicited disparaging opinions of other posters not in a discussion should really not be tolerated by the mods.

              (more than a/1 suggestion!)

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              • #82
                I am glad there is no formula for HEART, cause clearly people are not seeing everyone improving. It's because there loving playing together. Some of the games have looked extremely rough for the first half, then they get talked too, come in the 3rd start to catch rhythm, and pull it out. Were young and learning to win.

                2pat is clearly the other option missing from the JV Amir rotation. We need the 3 to get us there, and he doesn't need to be a superstar, even though it would be nice, as long as he is solid. If we play D it gives us a chance, and there's no telling who rises to the occasion in the playoffs, nobody has a formula for that.

                If we keep winning K Lowery might actually sacrifice for winning instead of big money. But we will have to pay him around DD's(8-9 mil) contract to keep I think.

                Either way there are always guys available, and a combination of guys playing one position can defiantly work. PG is also going to be very deep this year in the draft if everyone expected comes out. We might be able to snatch Ennis up around 12-14, if we cant trade for Wiggs.

                Believe in MU he might get us the prize!!!!!!

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                • #83
                  Scraptor wrote: View Post
                  Ceiling in today's NBA is determined by franchise talent, except in rare cases like the 2004 Pistons.

                  As for predicting individual ceilings, Val is the only player who might be a franchise talent.

                  Demar doesn't have the handles or creativity to be a lead wing on a championship squad.

                  Ross is 3 and D and dunk guy, a great role player.

                  Amir is a great role player.

                  Lowry could be an all-star but is also playing for a contract.

                  Come playoff time, how is this motley crew going to win four playoff rounds?

                  I like our guys and respect their tenacity but there's a reason Grantland just put us in the "Fool's Gold Diggers" category.
                  Ross still has room to grow.

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    huskies2raps wrote: View Post
                    http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-tr...o-to-the-wheel

                    Ever since reading Zach Lowe's article that goes over "The Wheel" I've been convinced that this would be the best way to eliminate rewarding teams for losing. Yes, the counter arguments of "If Milwaukee had the 1st pick next year and LA the next, the college player would wait an extra year etc." but at the end of the day, this method would give teams a fair shot at top level talent every few years and eliminate the need to reward bad teams.

                    We will see what Silver has in store for the NBA's next generation, but from what I hear he is very much an "outside the box" type thinker. Imagine going into every NBA season with teams having ZERO incentive to losing......
                    I've always liked, in basic principle, the idea of giving all non-playoff teams an equal shot. Hte problem is the first 3-4 teams that miss the playoffs may not actually be that bad and it may reward them too much. Some tiered system maybe? Maybe the bottom 10 teams all get a fair shot at the top, and the remaining non-playoff teams get a lesser chance, like a 1/4 of the other 10? I don't know. In the end I think the draft will stay as is.

                    The problem with the wheel is it's really hard on small markets. Imagine you invest in trying to win, end up among the worst in the league anyway, and your next top 5 pick isn't for a few years. By then you could be bankrupt and have to move, having not been able to maintain/generate fan support. That's also not good for the league. I mean, look at Milly. They clearly didn't plan to tank, since their owner is anti-tank, and now suck hard, and are trying to get investors for a new arena. The only selling point to those investors right now is that they can get a star in the next draft. If they had to wait 5 years, the team is dead...for sure.

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                    • #85
                      white men can't jump wrote: View Post
                      I've always liked, in basic principle, the idea of giving all non-playoff teams an equal shot. Hte problem is the first 3-4 teams that miss the playoffs may not actually be that bad and it may reward them too much. Some tiered system maybe? Maybe the bottom 10 teams all get a fair shot at the top, and the remaining non-playoff teams get a lesser chance, like a 1/4 of the other 10? I don't know. In the end I think the draft will stay as is.

                      The problem with the wheel is it's really hard on small markets. Imagine you invest in trying to win, end up among the worst in the league anyway, and your next top 5 pick isn't for a few years. By then you could be bankrupt and have to move, having not been able to maintain/generate fan support. That's also not good for the league. I mean, look at Milly. They clearly didn't plan to tank, since their owner is anti-tank, and now suck hard, and are trying to get investors for a new arena. The only selling point to those investors right now is that they can get a star in the next draft. If they had to wait 5 years, the team is dead...for sure.
                      Agreed, nothing should change because there is no perfect system but this might be as good as it gets. The tiered system you mentioned (top 10 equal odds) would probably create more tanking in the 8-13 range as no one would want to finish 11,12, 13 and miss out.

                      They'll talk about ideas but in the end nothing will change.
                      Heir, Prince of Cambridge

                      If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

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                      • #86
                        Axel wrote: View Post
                        Agreed, nothing should change because there is no perfect system but this might be as good as it gets. The tiered system you mentioned (top 10 equal odds) would probably create more tanking in the 8-13 range as no one would want to finish 11,12, 13 and miss out.

                        They'll talk about ideas but in the end nothing will change.
                        Yeah, I don't think it's a great idea. But I don't know....It's so hard to think of a good change. Maybe just balance out the lottery balls a bit better with the current system. Maybe make every spot open to every team (instead of the 3 top spots, and 3 spots behind your finishing position).

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                        • #87
                          Dr. James Naismith wrote: View Post
                          I think I'm might just go ahead and censor the word "tank" so whenever anyone types it here on the forums it just shows as "****". Its pretty evident that Masai and the Raptors aren't even thinking of it. Especially now.
                          I've though I still have a **** in my avatar I would LOVE it if you censured it!
                          "They're going to have to rename the whole conference after us: Toronto Raptors 2014-2015 Northern Conference Champions" ~ ezzbee Dec. 2014

                          "I guess I got a little carried away there" ~ ezzbee Apr. 2015

                          "We only have one rule on this team. What is that rule? E.L.E. That's right's, E.L.E, and what does E.L.E. stand for? EVERYBODY LOVE EVERYBODY. Right there up on the wall, because this isn't just a basketball team, this is a lifestyle. ~ Jackie Moon

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                          • #88
                            Looks like I've joined the thread a bit late here but I'll add my 2 cents.

                            I've been conflicted about cheering for our team. I am happy that we are playing well compared to the last 4-5 years. I'm excited about making the playoffs and going to a playoff game.. it's been years and the experience/atmosphere is phenomenal. But I can't help but feel sorry for Masai for being in a difficult position of a team that is possibly overachieving at the worst possible time.. much like we experienced a 7-8 years ago with a different GM. I mean, unless you really believed that Garbajosa had such a positive effect on that team, the reality is that was not a proper 47-win team. That's not to say BC made all the right moves, but he seemed to believe in those 47 wins and that resulted in 2-3 years of believing in it, and then a few more years of trying to get back when it was never really there.

                            I don't think I have to point out that the Eastern Conference is even more of a joke than it has ever been. If past 5-8 years are any indication, a 0.500 record normally nets you 2nd in the Atlantic or as low as 4th, and certainly not a top 3-4 record in the East.

                            I don't think Masai will fall into the same trap as BC, but it still "feels" like a wasted opportunity.

                            I'm not as creative when it comes to thinking up possible trades (nor do I see a point in doing it), but I don't see a lot of ways to improve the team given that we are fairly cash-strapped for another season after this, plus with no high picks coming up, we have to kind of rely on Ross and JV to get better. But I don't see how these two guys will improve to the point that we become contenders. Either way, I can imagine Masai walking down the halls and having people giving him high-fives and saying "First place, baby!" and smiling and telling him what a great job he's doing and meanwhile in his heart he's in complete turmoil. So while we have a great chance to duplicate Atlanta's past recent success, I feel that Masai (and Leiweke) were aiming a bit higher.

                            And that's really where my worries and my conflict on the season are stemmed from. I have a good friend of mine who has been a lifetime Bulls fan, and he always has some sort of complaint about his team. And I'm just like "You know what.. shut up. You had Michael Jordan. That is all.". I personally am fine with Atlanta's last 5 years. I just think that there was an opportunity this season to become more than that and we potentially missed out on it.
                            your pal,
                            ebrian

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                            • #89
                              ebrian wrote: View Post
                              Looks like I've joined the thread a bit late here but I'll add my 2 cents.

                              I've been conflicted about cheering for our team. I am happy that we are playing well compared to the last 4-5 years. I'm excited about making the playoffs and going to a playoff game.. it's been years and the experience/atmosphere is phenomenal. But I can't help but feel sorry for Masai for being in a difficult position of a team that is possibly overachieving at the worst possible time.. much like we experienced a 7-8 years ago with a different GM. I mean, unless you really believed that Garbajosa had such a positive effect on that team, the reality is that was not a proper 47-win team. That's not to say BC made all the right moves, but he seemed to believe in those 47 wins and that resulted in 2-3 years of believing in it, and then a few more years of trying to get back when it was never really there.

                              I don't think I have to point out that the Eastern Conference is even more of a joke than it has ever been. If past 5-8 years are any indication, a 0.500 record normally nets you 2nd in the Atlantic or as low as 4th, and certainly not a top 3-4 record in the East.

                              I don't think Masai will fall into the same trap as BC, but it still "feels" like a wasted opportunity.

                              I'm not as creative when it comes to thinking up possible trades (nor do I see a point in doing it), but I don't see a lot of ways to improve the team given that we are fairly cash-strapped for another season after this, plus with no high picks coming up, we have to kind of rely on Ross and JV to get better. But I don't see how these two guys will improve to the point that we become contenders. Either way, I can imagine Masai walking down the halls and having people giving him high-fives and saying "First place, baby!" and smiling and telling him what a great job he's doing and meanwhile in his heart he's in complete turmoil. So while we have a great chance to duplicate Atlanta's past recent success, I feel that Masai (and Leiweke) were aiming a bit higher.

                              And that's really where my worries and my conflict on the season are stemmed from. I have a good friend of mine who has been a lifetime Bulls fan, and he always has some sort of complaint about his team. And I'm just like "You know what.. shut up. You had Michael Jordan. That is all.". I personally am fine with Atlanta's last 5 years. I just think that there was an opportunity this season to become more than that and we potentially missed out on it.
                              There is a missed opportunity in that drafting a franchise-changing player in 2014 and moving forward by building around him would have been both fantastic and a clear path into the future. Totally agreed that that would have been nice!

                              At the same time, I'm not worried about Ujiri's options moving forward. Somebody correct me if this is off, but HoopsHype has the Raps current salary commitments at $70 mil this year, $41 mil next year, and $13 mil the year after. This team isn't tied into any Joe Johnson/Rudy gay sized salaries, or any long-term salaries. The worst guy on the books at this point is Fields, and there's enough flexibility around him that he's not much of an issue at the moment.

                              Also, while it's true that it looks like the Raps won't be drafting top 10, they have all their own picks plus an extra 2nd rounder this year and an extra first rounder in 2016. They're going to have to draft really efficiently mid-late round, like the Pacers or Spurs, but they're going to have picks.

                              And I've said this a few times, so pardon the repetition, but Ross and JV are nowhere near their ceilings, DD and Amir are still developing, and hopefully Lowry is just hitting his peak (if he stays). If Lowry goes, that's going to change the make-up of the team considerably. If Ujiri manages to "win" that transaction (whatever it turns into), it'll be another step forward.

                              In summary - I also would have loved to see the Raps get a top 6 pick in this draft, but I've got plenty of hope with Ujiri steering this roster, and it is worth something to be watching far better basketball in the meantime.

                              All that is unrelated, as far as I'm concerned, to how bad the East is. The only goal is championships, weather 2/3 of the east sucks or not. I'm only concerned about being able to beat the top 4 or 5 teams in the league.
                              "We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard

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                              • #90
                                I think Hoopshype is showing actual salary versus the cap-hit. Basketball-Reference seems to have the cap hit, but then it wasn't showing the team options properly.

                                This site appears to have it right (although I hate the formatting because I don't have a wide-screen monitor):
                                http://storytellerscontracts.info/?page_id=1696

                                So it appears we will have $38M committed salaries not including Amir Johnson's $7M and I would assume we plan to exercise Tyler Hansbrough's $3.3M as well. This leaves us at $49.2M without a single point guard on the roster. So we've got about $11.8M to essentially bring everyone important back, which means as mentioned, no real way to improve the roster other than player development and... drafting like the Spurs.
                                Last edited by ebrian; Fri Jan 10, 2014, 12:28 PM.
                                your pal,
                                ebrian

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