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Screw Tanking

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  • Scraptor
    replied
    What the ****. This is a ****ing travesty. I can't ****ing handle it. We are going to waste another ****ing year.

    It's a giant cluster****. I trusted you to do the right ****ing thing, MU. Instead you ****ed our dreams.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jclaw
    replied
    KHD wrote: View Post
    Wow, this forum has gone to hell in a handbasket over the past few days.

    Too much "Leaf Fan Syndrome" all around in this forum: when we win a few games we're suddenly a contender, but when the pendulum swings back we're suddenly shit. Reality is that this team has been bad to mediocre for years, and some people, believe it or not, aren't ready to say "we're ready to compete" after a 15 game stretch. We all remember the Bargnani situation, don't we?

    By the way, banning a word is fucking idiocy.


    But, on the flipside...."screw *****" is the funniest thread title in a while. Anyone else see Jimmy Kimmel's "This Week in Unnecessary Censorhip?"

    Leave a comment:


  • dzoni71
    replied
    I was even before this season started against blowing up the team just so you can get a high draft pick as there were many unknowns and too many teams trying to do the same thing. Now in the last week or so I have read several articles that argue this class has franchise changing talent at all (the only reason one would **** in the first place).
    Quote:
    "Deep as this draft class is, its star quotient is another question. Setting aside comparisons to LeBron James and Durant, who are beyond anyone on the horizon, no one in this class is as highly regarded as No. 1 picks Anthony Davis (2012), Kyrie Irving (2011), John Wall (2010), Blake Griffin (2009) or Derrick Rose (2008).
    If you called the Pelicans, the Cavs or any of those teams and offered this year’s first pick for their guy, they’d fall over laughing,” says a Western Conference personnel guy."

    Now I am no NBA scout, so cannot say Parker, Wiggins or Randle are future all-stars or not, but the fact that even many scouts do not think so highly of the ceiling of this years class is a definite nail in the coffin.

    Link:
    http://www.forbes.com/sites/markheis...ent-that-good/

    Leave a comment:


  • KHD
    replied
    Wow, this forum has gone to hell in a handbasket over the past few days.

    Too much "Leaf Fan Syndrome" all around in this forum: when we win a few games we're suddenly a contender, but when the pendulum swings back we're suddenly shit. Reality is that this team has been bad to mediocre for years, and some people, believe it or not, aren't ready to say "we're ready to compete" after a 15 game stretch. We all remember the Bargnani situation, don't we?

    By the way, banning a word is fucking idiocy.

    Leave a comment:


  • JawsGT
    replied
    BobLoblaw wrote: View Post
    Well, we have to judge what Smith gave Atlanta, not Detroit. Back then, he was a borderline all star in many of those years and making 11.5 mil on average.
    True, and what he gave Atlanta is certainly more than he is giving Detroit. Nonetheless, he is the same type of player IMO.

    Leave a comment:


  • vino
    replied
    some relevant news from hoopshype this morning:

    "For the first time, there are certifiable rumbles emanating from Toronto suggesting that the Raptors might well keep point guard Kyle Lowry for the rest of the season. Word is new GM Masai Ujiri continues to resist locking into any sort of firm position -- leaving open the possibility of a Lowry deal if the offers suddenly get sweeter -- but team officials appear to be growing increasingly comfortable with the idea that it’s better to go for what would be just Toronto's third playoff berth in 13 seasons rather than try to do the absolute uber-****ing it would take from here for the 17-17 Raps to get into Andrew Wiggins range now."

    Leave a comment:


  • BobLoblaw
    replied
    JawsGT wrote: View Post
    Just goes to show all the variables that have to come together to build a champion. A better coach probably could have made a big difference, and being healthy is certainly a major factor. Nonetheless, I think you have more faith in Smith than I do. Honestly, I'd rather pay Amir $13.5M per than Smith, although that wouldn't be a good decision either, but better than Smith IMO.
    Well, we have to judge what Smith gave Atlanta, not Detroit. Back then, he was a borderline all star in many of those years and making 11.5 mil on average.

    Leave a comment:


  • Fully
    replied
    Banning the word **** is actually pretty lame.

    Leave a comment:


  • Apollo
    replied
    Wow, lots of people dropping the T bomb in here ha, ha.

    Sent from my Note 3 using Tapatalk

    Leave a comment:


  • JawsGT
    replied
    BobLoblaw wrote: View Post
    Hawks 'big 3' wasn't too bad, even at that price. Two legit all stars and a borderline all star in Smith.

    But they screwed up so many other decisions. Drafting Marvin Williams, Josh Childress and Shelden Williams over CP3, Luol Deng and Brandon Roy in consecutive years. Overpaying Marvin Williams, similar to Raptors and Bargnani. Losing Childress to Europe when he started to improve. Not getting a legit starting point guard nor a good offensive coach until the last few years.

    Also, that big 3 was rarely healthy all at once.

    Lets even ignore the stars and superstars that were drafted right after their picks. If they just got competent supporting cast and coaching, and stayed healthy, I think they would've been a perennial 50 wins team. Maybe not that "tier 1" contender, but very good.
    Just goes to show all the variables that have to come together to build a champion. A better coach probably could have made a big difference, and being healthy is certainly a major factor. Nonetheless, I think you have more faith in Smith than I do. Honestly, I'd rather pay Amir $13.5M per than Smith, although that wouldn't be a good decision either, but better than Smith IMO.

    Leave a comment:


  • BobLoblaw
    replied
    Hawks 'big 3' wasn't too bad, even at that price. Two legit all stars and a borderline all star in Smith.

    But they screwed up so many other decisions. Drafting Marvin Williams, Josh Childress and Shelden Williams over CP3, Luol Deng and Brandon Roy in consecutive years. Overpaying Marvin Williams, similar to Raptors and Bargnani. Losing Childress to Europe when he started to improve. Not getting a legit starting point guard nor a good offensive coach until the last few years.

    Also, that big 3 was rarely healthy all at once.

    Lets even ignore the stars and superstars that were drafted right after their picks. If they just got competent supporting cast and coaching, and stayed healthy, I think they would've been a perennial 50 wins team. Maybe not that "tier 1" contender, but very good.
    Last edited by BobLoblaw; Sat Jan 11th, 2014, 07:50 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • JawsGT
    replied
    ebrian wrote: View Post
    I don't understand the animosity between the two sides and the personal attacks. "Screw ****ing" to me is a personal attack, because you are a basically saying my ideas are stupid. I don't think your idea is stupid, why attack me? At the end of the day we all want to see the team do well, but we just have different ideas about how to get there. From that standpoint, I don't understand why anything ever has to get personal.

    So to switch it up a bit, I wonder if each side has a different interpretation of what is meant by "no man's land". I think when I heard TL talk about chasing championships and MU talk about no man's land, I thought immediately of the Atlanta Hawks. I know there was also another term thrown around called the "treadmill", I think that was something different, referring to the 7-11 range. So for me, my interpretation of MU's goal was to avoid being Atlanta. But maybe I'm wrong?

    As I've mentioned, I personally wouldn't mind it. Obviously I'd love to contend every year, but making the playoffs 6 years in a row while never getting past the 2nd round.. I mean it's not terrible. It's better than what we've been doing the past 6 years, that's for sure!

    But if we look at Atlanta, I think it's very similar to where we are headed. As mentioned they've made the playoffs in every one of those years but have never gone past the second round. They improved mostly by developing their own players after Al Horford was drafted, and build around a solid nucleus of Horford, Smith and Joe Johnson. I think the highest draft pick in the last 6 years has been Jeff Teague at #19, who by the way has developed in a fairly decent player. Even after losing Josh Smith they are still right there after getting Millsap. The Horford injury will hurt but the East is so bad they'll very likely make the playoffs for a 7th straight year.
    I think there were two reasons why Atlanta could not get off that treadmill and jump to true contenders. 1. Josh Smith - I really really do not think this guy has what it takes to be a champion. I don't think he has the heart, the desire to win, nor do I think he is an ideal teammate. I have no proof, but just based on what I see from him in the games I have watched over the years I don't think he truly elevates a ball team, I think he hinders it. Loads of talent, but poor decision maker and I doubt he puts the team ahead of himself. 2. Joe Johnson's contract extension - Johnson is a good player with crazy clutch shooting, but his contract severely limited the team from being able to add the pieces necessary to elevate them to contenders.

    It's hard to find a player that truly deserves a max contract type deal, and if you give it to the wrong guys, you become limited in what you can add to the team, and let's face it, Johnson and Smith aren't like Lebron, Wade and Bosh where they can attract guys like Ray Allen and Battier for crazy cheap contracts.

    Leave a comment:


  • JawsGT
    replied
    Yeah the constant back and forth is getting old. Every reply is the same as the one before. No new ideas are being presented, it's all the same shit since the preseason. No one is right and no one is wrong, and there is no need to get personal. Suffice it to say that neither 'side' is capable of converting the other. I despise the idea of ****ing, and thats not gonna change regardless of the argument, I just fundamentally hate the idea, and for me it speaks to larger issues within the league and not the Raptors specifically. But I do recognize it's a viable option for team building and if MU had to strip the team to **** than I would have been fine with that. I also believe that this team is pretty good, and the only way my opinion of that is gonna change is by the on court play of the team. We all "believe" in something here in regards to team building or what this team is or can be, and many of us are very entrenched in that belief, and that's fine too, isn't it? We all need to take a step back and stop waiting for the chance to say 'I told you so', because to me that's all this is about at this point.

    Leave a comment:


  • wallz
    replied
    ****!

    Leave a comment:


  • MixxAOR
    replied
    white men can't jump wrote: View Post
    On the flip side, anti-****ers have constantly berated the **** side for not being "true fans", and for being pro-losing. Again, it's a stupid argument at this point that lost any sense of rationality it may have once had.

    There is a very cold logic to ****ing, but no guarantees. It is risky as it implies losing talent to hopefully gain a better talent, which could result in constantly lacking talent if picks don't pan out. Either way the draft is important even if the team does well, and there's no guarantee a low pick is a bad pick either, possibly even what the team needs in the long run.

    There is a very real spirit of hope and competitiveness to anti-****ing, but also no guarantees. It is very difficult to make a rational argument as to how a team goes from good to great without a high pick, because it involves opportunities which are literally impossible to predict. This last part seemed to frustrate ****ers as they believe that there is at least certainty of opportunity (but not of success) with ****ing and getting a pick. But it also doesn't mean that those other opportunities won't present themselves and won't be taken advantage of by our management.

    *Guarantees meaning finding the piece(s) to avoid the dreaded scenarios.

    Scenario #1: the Charlotte scenario. A perennial bottomfeeder that is poorly managed and can't ever break out.

    Scenario #2: the Milwaukee scenario. A perennial fringe playoff team that may not be poorly managed, but it's constant mediocrity makes it difficult to break out.

    Scenario #3: the Atlanta scenario. A perennial middle of the pack playoff team that lacks flexibility (talking past years here) and room for growth to really get over the hump into the elite of the league.

    These are all less than ideal scenarios in the long run for most every fan. Even the most "desirable" scenario of Atlanta, where the team may win a playoff series now and then, is not something the vast majority of fans want.
    Amen. But honestly cheering for another team to win was too much. Hoping that your team loses and talk trash about players when they lose made it unbearable(talking about RealGM right now)
    And I don't know why it's so hard to accept that you need a lot of luck to win. I know it's not something people wanna hear and would like to have a strict PLAN. But how can you have a plan? NBA is so unpredictable. You can't follow some past team's model to a T.

    Leave a comment:

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