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Bryan Colangelo - Updated Legacy?

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  • rocwell wrote: View Post
    Why are we talking about someone who's not related to our organisation anymore? Culture change, remember?

    Have I missed something here?
    thead wrote: View Post
    sometimes I feel like we are that guy that just can't go out for a single night without bringing up his ex-girlfriend
    It's hard to ignore an ex-girlfriend who appears on Prime Time Sports discussing your relationship :P

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    • Dude was fine

      never understood the anger. his only real issue was his stubborness with Bargnani....but that said, I'm not sure many other GM's wanted him.... MU has something on that guy in New York.... hahaha

      Comment


      • One thing you can't deny about the man was that he had balls and was willing to take a risk. Many of the risks failed, but some worked out.
        Give me liberty or give me a bran muffin! - Colin Mochrie

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        • We should really gild another ex gm...Glen Grunwald for making the Bargnani trade on behalf of the Knicks. He is now athletic director of Western (I think...maybe wrong on the univ). That stareted the ball rolling with Gay next. This is NOT BC's team. If those two players were still here Lowry wouldve been gone and the guys from SAC wouldnt have been here...no playoffs last year etc etc etc. I am getting the shakes.

          Comment


          • Superjudge wrote: View Post
            Dude was fine

            never understood the anger. his only real issue was his stubborness with Bargnani....but that said, I'm not sure many other GM's wanted him.... MU has something on that guy in New York.... hahaha


            mm.. pizza.. Italiano..

            Comment


            • most sought after FA that summer. nobody knew he was gonna blow up like he did man.

              Comment


              • Superjudge wrote: View Post
                Dude was fine

                never understood the anger. his only real issue was his stubborness with Bargnani....but that said, I'm not sure many other GM's wanted him.... MU has something on that guy in New York.... hahaha
                It's not anger, it's the revisionist historians trying to give BC credit for building this team. That's just so wrong.

                When I think of some key skills a GM needs to be really good at to build an NBA team, the following come to mind:

                1) Evaluator of basketball talent: BC was okay here.
                2) Evaluator of player character: Caliper Test, ftw.
                3) Builder of team chemistry: Bargs, Gay, Hedo. All chemistry killers.
                4) Fiscal responsibility: I'd rather have a drunken sailor managing my financial portfolio (... if I had portfolio, that is).

                You can't just be good at 1 out of 4 and be successful. Life doesn't work that way, and it didn't for BC.

                And Masai simply destroys BC on all of these and that's why he's successful and BC never would be. Put it this way: if Masai starts with a completely different team, he still ends up building a winning team.

                BC was not bad, but not good either. Probably more bad, than good. Exactly what his record shows, which has absolutely nothing to do with this team's record.

                mcHAPPY wrote: View Post
                BC was commissioned to create a work of art. He rented the studio, bought the clay, and did enough with it to see what would not work. The commissioner came along and was disgusted by what he saw. Masai was brought in to salvage the project and created a masterpiece.
                That's good analogy and here's another one: I can give 2 people the same starting ingredients and one will make a gourmet dish and another will feed you something that'll make you puke.
                Last edited by golden; Tue Nov 11th, 2014, 03:19 PM.

                Comment


                • Colangelo wasn't a 100% disaster, but close to it.

                  His biggest achievements would be: Hiring Masai Ujiri as a scout; re-signing Demar to that sweetass deal he's on.

                  Colangelo's idea of being a GM would be to roll the dice and hope for shit to happen. Case-in-point: Jermaine O'Neal, Hedo Turkoglu, Rudy Gay, the pathetic attempt at acquiring Steve Nash (just imagine for one second what kind of situation we would be in right now if BC signed Nash).

                  Sure you can thank BC all you want for getting us this starting unit, but it's only because a much smarter and talented GM came in and knew what to do with it.

                  If it was up to BC, last season would've been a tank season, and we'd be bottom feeders again with a completely new roster. For the umpteenth time in his tenure.
                  Last edited by nubreed000; Tue Nov 11th, 2014, 03:51 PM.

                  Comment


                  • I'm not trying to defend BC, but my biggest beef with him was his seeming unwillingness to stick to a plan, whether it was to compete or rebuild. I wonder how much of that was legitimately on him, and how much of it was due to orders from above? I always got the feeling that he had a desired course of action in mind, which often got overruled by the powers that be (ie: OTPP and it's minions).

                    Particular moves can be debated, both in the moment and in hindsight, but more often than not he was attempting to do the right thing (I personally was opposed to both the O'Neal and Hedo moves because I hate short-sighted, desperate all-in type moves). It was his strategic 180's that irked me. Compete now, blow it up, rebuild, accelerated rebuild; all in the span of about 2 years... BC honestly seems to have a better basketball mind than that.

                    Of course, we'll never know the truth. However, there's no denying that he became more of an MLSE 'yes man' the closer he got to the end of his contract, for what that's worth...

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                    • Lets look at some of the bad things in recent memory...

                      1. Traded for Rudy Gay
                      2. Drafted Bargnani
                      3. Signed Bargs to that huge max extension
                      4. Drafted Terrence Ross over Drummond
                      5. Signed Landry Fields
                      6. Signed Kleiza
                      7. Traded away Bosh for peanuts
                      8. Signed Turkologu to that massive contract
                      9. Traded Roy Hibbert and TJ Ford for Jermaine O Neal
                      10. Traded a first rounder for James Johnson then traded away for a 2nd rounder a season later?

                      and so much more stuff man, this is just from the top of my head how bad BC has been

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                      • A lot of people are talking about Bargnani as if BC would have kept him, but I'm not sure those people were paying attention in 2012-13. BC repeatedly said he was trying to move Bargs. He even went on ESPN and basically said Bargs was out.

                        Then Bargs went down with an elbow injury till a short time before the deadline, and BC said there wasn't enough time to get a deal done, and that they would revisit in the summer. I would post links but mobile isn't letting me.

                        BC clearly kept Bargs too long but it was obvious in his final year that Bargs was no longer part of the core.
                        It's the Spicy Show! Time to cook.

                        Comment


                        • nubreed000 wrote: View Post
                          Colangelo wasn't a 100% disaster, but close to it.

                          His biggest achievements would be: Hiring Masai Ujiri as a scout; re-signing Demar to that sweetass deal he's on.

                          Colangelo's idea of being a GM would be to roll the dice and hope for shit to happen. Case-in-point: Jermaine O'Neal, Hedo Turkoglu, Rudy Gay, the pathetic attempt at acquiring Steve Nash (just imagine for one second what kind of situation we would be in right now if BC signed Nash).

                          Sure you can thank BC all you want for getting us this starting unit, but it's only because a much smarter and talented GM came in and knew what to do with it.

                          If it was up to BC, last season would've been a tank season, and we'd be bottom feeders again with a completely new roster. For the umpteenth time in his tenure.
                          Not trying to apologize for BCs mistakes, nor knock down Masai, but among many who say something this (bold), or he created a masterpiece, or.........., many are the same ones who still insist Masai was trying to tank with the Gay trade and had no idea what he was getting back was going to turn out as it did, AND say that he was trying to tank by trading Lowry and only got lucky that Dolan stepped in and prevented him from unloading the team leader. What is it? Is he a genius who knew what he was doing, or did he just get lucky? Can't have it both ways, lol.

                          To some of the other BC "misdeeds":
                          - citing Hedo is 100% using 20/20 hindsight. The guy was the Magic's playoff MVP, the season before, all the way to the finals, not Dwight. He was the most sought after FA that summer, and Portland had even already had a commitment from him, but BC "stole" him from them. NOBODY knew Hedo would tank like he did. NOBODY.
                          - Gay: It was a gamble that didn't work out, but all it cost was an expiring Jose and ED. The return (apparently pure luck to some) for flipping Gay was far greater than the cost, so in the end, not a bad deal. Could BC have flipped Gay for as much? Nobody has a clue. But Masai doesn't turn Jose and ED into GV, PP, Lou, Bebe if BC doesn't do that deal.
                          - Lowry: People forget that BC was trying to swing a deal for Lowry at the draft, long before even talking to Nash. BC didn't want to give up the 8thy pick in that draft, which turned into Ross. Lowry wasn't simply the after thought, backup plan for Nash. He was after Lowry all along, and ended up only giving up a 14thy pick in a weaker draft.
                          - Bargs: Without hindsight, nothing wrong with the original draft choice, but he was way too stubborn in hanging onto him. To say he would still be on the team is forgetting that BC had finally woken up and was trying to unload Bargs his last year, but Bargs kept getting injured, which tied his hands.

                          BC certainly made some mistakes, particularly overspending on a couple of FAs, but he was nowhere near the total disaster that some make him out to be. That said, I'm damn happy we have MU running the ship now!

                          Comment


                          • Landry with the flu!

                            Stay home with the wife!


                            Bruno time!?!?!?!?

                            Comment


                            • chico wrote: View Post
                              Not trying to apologize for BCs mistakes, nor knock down Masai, but among many who say something this (bold), or he created a masterpiece, or.........., many are the same ones who still insist Masai was trying to tank with the Gay trade and had no idea what he was getting back was going to turn out as it did, AND say that he was trying to tank by trading Lowry and only got lucky that Dolan stepped in and prevented him from unloading the team leader. What is it? Is he a genius who knew what he was doing, or did he just get lucky? Can't have it both ways, lol.

                              To some of the other BC "misdeeds":
                              - citing Hedo is 100% using 20/20 hindsight. The guy was the Magic's playoff MVP, the season before, all the way to the finals, not Dwight. He was the most sought after FA that summer, and Portland had even already had a commitment from him, but BC "stole" him from them. NOBODY knew Hedo would tank like he did. NOBODY.
                              - Gay: It was a gamble that didn't work out, but all it cost was an expiring Jose and ED. The return (apparently pure luck to some) for flipping Gay was far greater than the cost, so in the end, not a bad deal. Could BC have flipped Gay for as much? Nobody has a clue. But Masai doesn't turn Jose and ED into GV, PP, Lou, Bebe if BC doesn't do that deal.
                              - Lowry: People forget that BC was trying to swing a deal for Lowry at the draft, long before even talking to Nash. BC didn't want to give up the 8thy pick in that draft, which turned into Ross. Lowry wasn't simply the after thought, backup plan for Nash. He was after Lowry all along, and ended up only giving up a 14thy pick in a weaker draft.
                              - Bargs: Without hindsight, nothing wrong with the original draft choice, but he was way too stubborn in hanging onto him. To say he would still be on the team is forgetting that BC had finally woken up and was trying to unload Bargs his last year, but Bargs kept getting injured, which tied his hands.

                              BC certainly made some mistakes, particularly overspending on a couple of FAs, but he was nowhere near the total disaster that some make him out to be. That said, I'm damn happy we have MU running the ship now!
                              I agree with everything but Bargnani. LaMarcus Aldridge was always the better choice that year, and the majority of prognosticators had him as the better player at the time.

                              But some of it is pure luck. You think Masai knew the Rudy Gay trade he swung last year would make the team better, much less turn it into an Eastern Conference contender? Zach Lowe said as much in his article today, the Raptors as currently composed are the happy accident formed from an aborted restructuring. (He said "aborted near-tank" but I know some may not react kindly to using that term.)
                              That is a normal collar. Move on, find a new slant.

                              Comment


                              • Other Scott wrote: View Post
                                I agree with everything but Bargnani. LaMarcus Aldridge was always the better choice that year, and the majority of prognosticators had him as the better player at the time.

                                But some of it is pure luck. You think Masai knew the Rudy Gay trade he swung last year would make the team better, much less turn it into an Eastern Conference contender? Zach Lowe said as much in his article today, the Raptors as currently composed are the happy accident formed from an aborted restructuring. (He said "aborted near-tank" but I know some may not react kindly to using that term.)
                                It really was the worst year for the Raptors to win the top pick. PF was the team's greatest strength (Bosh), so BC would have been roasted alive by fans and the media if he 'wasted' that pick on another PF. There were several good wings available (Roy, Gay and Foye), as well as a C that was being touted as 'Dirk-lite'.

                                Personally, I was pushing for either Roy or Gay, because I saw the league going away from traditional lineups (PG & big), in favor of ball-handling wings. I thought either of those wings would have been extremely complimentary to Bosh, setting them up to have a fantastic young core for the long-term.

                                For several years after the draft, given all the injuries and busts, it really did look like Aldridge, Gay and Bargnani were the best 3 picks (from among the consensus top 10 or so picks going in). Obviously both Bargnani and Gay (until his rebirth so far this season) had severe drops in production over the last couple seasons, to the point that Aldridge is really the last man standing as the 'obvious' #1 pick.

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