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Bryan Colangelo - Updated Legacy?

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  • Anyone who says criticizing the Hedo move is hindsight is way off. I hated it at the time. The entire contingent at RaptorsHQ hated it. Anyone who didn't hate it didn't pay attention to the previous season, and was blinded by clutch play in the playoffs (his per game play was still terrible in the playoffs).
    twitter.com/dhackett1565

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    • What I didn't like about BC was how he didn't seem to have a proper vision for the team. Was his goal to win a championship or to get into the playoffs?

      In terms of priorities, I felt that he tried too hard to sell a team to Toronto and Canada instead of just trying to put a sustainable winning team on the floor.

      Triano should not have been the coach, and Nash should never have been the guy he should have gone after. He tried to get big 'names'.. Gay, O'Neal and Hedo could help sell seats but neither meshed well with the guys that were already there. Gay and DD should never be playing at the same time. O'Neal/Bosh/Bargnani couldn't work. Hedo needs the "ball".. that's not possible when Jose's the primary PG. He didn't have the vision to deal Bosh before he should have or the relationship to allow Bosh to be more open with him.

      I was an unhappy fan when Bryan was the GM. I am much happier now. So thank-you Bryan for giving Masai a chance. And I thank Tim for finally kicking him out.

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      • No! Colangelo's legacy isn't good!

        Being a good GM isn't making a few good moves, it's having your good moves outweigh the bad ones. Given the state of the team after 2007, I don't think Colangelo's do.

        He's not a complete idiot by any means, but his tenure with the Raptors wasn't successful.
        "Bruno?
        Heh, if he is in the D-league still in a few years I will be surprised.
        He's terrible."

        -Superjudge, 7/23

        Hope you're wrong.

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        • Fuck Colangelo
          Fuck Bargnani
          "Both teams played hard my man" - Sheed

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          • golden wrote: View Post
            It's not anger, it's the revisionist historians trying to give BC credit for building this team. That's just so wrong.

            When I think of some key skills a GM needs to be really good at to build an NBA team, the following come to mind:

            1) Evaluator of basketball talent: BC was okay here.
            2) Evaluator of player character: Caliper Test, ftw.
            3) Builder of team chemistry: Bargs, Gay, Hedo. All chemistry killers.
            4) Fiscal responsibility: I'd rather have a drunken sailor managing my financial portfolio (... if I had portfolio, that is).

            You can't just be good at 1 out of 4 and be successful. Life doesn't work that way, and it didn't for BC.

            And Masai simply destroys BC on all of these and that's why he's successful and BC never would be. Put it this way: if Masai starts with a completely different team, he still ends up building a winning team.

            BC was not bad, but not good either. Probably more bad, than good. Exactly what his record shows, which has absolutely nothing to do with this team's record.


            That's good analogy and here's another one: I can give 2 people the same starting ingredients and one will make a gourmet dish and another will feed you something that'll make you puke.

            If I may I would add one more item to your list of reqts. for running any organisation....hiring/surrounding yourself as gm with the best people. He not only had too many my perception was they stuck around too long and were not very good (eg. Kelly the chief scout and in charge of the draft). Masai has flattened the org. and runs a tight ship re external communications (no leaks).

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            • Bendit wrote: View Post
              We should really gild another ex gm...Glen Grunwald for making the Bargnani trade on behalf of the Knicks. He is now athletic director of Western (I think...maybe wrong on the univ). That stareted the ball rolling with Gay next. This is NOT BC's team. If those two players were still here Lowry wouldve been gone and the guys from SAC wouldnt have been here...no playoffs last year etc etc etc. I am getting the shakes.
              I believe he's at McMaster.

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              • planetmars wrote: View Post
                What I didn't like about BC was how he didn't seem to have a proper vision for the team. Was his goal to win a championship or to get into the playoffs?

                .
                I think what screwed things up was that surprise 47 win season ... He had a vision prior to that .... I think not reading the Bosh situation also should be a thing he should be judged on ..

                Don't hate on Bryan cause of Bargs ... Bargs had the tools to be a 1st overall pic in that draft

                but the passion to be great has and will never be in Bargs

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                • guyroch wrote: View Post
                  I think what screwed things up was that surprise 47 win season ... He had a vision prior to that .... I think not reading the Bosh situation also should be a thing he should be judged on ..

                  Don't hate on Bryan cause of Bargs ... Bargs had the tools to be a 1st overall pic in that draft

                  but the passion to be great has and will never be in Bargs
                  I don't hate Colangelo for drafting Bargnani. I hate him for holding onto Bargnani for 7 looooong years.

                  Then Masai walks through the door and trades him within 5 minutes, lol.

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                  • At the risk of sounding like a broken record…

                    General Managers do not deserve any credit whatsoever for 'swinging and missing'. They don't receive passes for getting "unlucky". This is a 100% results oriented business, and any comments about how you can't use hindsight to judge these deals is incredibly non sensical. He had full autonomy for 7 years and the team stunk for pretty much all of them. That's what he should be judged on - his record. Not how good his intentions were.

                    Does Joe Dumars get a pass for drafting Darko over Melo, Bosh or Wade? I mean, he thought he was getting one of the most dynamic big men in the history of the sport. He just got unlucky that Darko turned out to be a scrub… but no one would have seen that coming.

                    Does Grunwald get a pass for giving up 3 draft picks for Bargnani last summer? I mean, he thought he could re-kindle the career of a versatile big man who had averaged 21 and 5 at one point. And the Knicks would be awesome anyway, so what's the big deal about giving up a couple of late picks?

                    Every GM THINKS they are doing the right thing to help their team be successful (unless you're talking about an egregious tank job like Philly is currently employing), so are they all absolved from criticism too? No, of course not. Some do a much better job of setting their teams up to be successful than others and we judge them accordingly.

                    I can't believe people are not only still defending this guy, but re-writing history just to give him pats on the back. Hedo was definitely a risky signing - he had contract year flame out written all over him, and was a dreadful fit for the Raptors roster. Jermaine O'Neal had missed 40, 13, 31, and 38 games respectively in the 4 seasons leading up to his trade to Toronto. He was damaged goods on a massive contract, and an ornery personality in the locker room to boot. And that's just two of his biggest blunders, you can go through the entire list of his screw ups and say why they didn't appear to be wise decisions at the time.
                    Last edited by Fully; Wed Nov 12th, 2014, 12:07 PM.

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                    • Nilanka wrote: View Post
                      I don't hate Colangelo for drafting Bargnani. I hate him for holding onto Bargnani for 7 looooong years.

                      Then Masai walks through the door and trades him within 5 minutes, lol.
                      Bargs was gone that summer .. Either Masai or Bryan would have done it ...

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                      • guyroch wrote: View Post
                        Bargs was gone that summer .. Either Masai or Bryan would have done it ...
                        Common sense says this is true. But then again, common sense and Colangelo don't go hand-in-hand. If Colangelo was still around, it wouldn't have surprised me one bit if he stalled on any Bargnani trades.

                        Remember, Colangelo had an ego (whether he wanted to admit it or not). And trading Bargnani would've signaled that his first move in charge of the Raptors, was an utter failure.

                        He probably would've over-valued Bargnani in any trade discussions with rival GMs, and priced himself out of a deal altogether.

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                        • Nilanka wrote: View Post
                          Common sense says this is true. But then again, common sense and Colangelo don't go hand-in-hand. If Colangelo was still around, it wouldn't have surprised me one bit if he stalled on any Bargnani trades.

                          Remember, Colangelo had an ego (whether he wanted to admit it or not). And trading Bargnani would've signaled that his first move in charge of the Raptors, was an utter failure.

                          He probably would've over-valued Bargnani in any trade discussions with rival GMs, and priced himself out of a deal altogether.
                          No, its true. If you remember the mood around the team and in the acc, there is no way bargs was coming back.

                          Where masai gets credit is in the return.
                          It's Klaw Season. Time to hunt.

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                          • KeonClark wrote: View Post
                            No, its true. If you remember the mood around the team and in the acc, there is no way bargs was coming back.

                            Where masai gets credit is in the return.
                            I agree that the mood around the team and ACC was low, but it was pretty low the 2 years prior too. Just saying

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                            • Nilanka wrote: View Post
                              I agree that the mood around the team and ACC was low, but it was pretty low the 2 years prior too. Just saying
                              Well, it wasn't "bargnani getting mercifully booed by his own teams fans every time he touched the ball" low for the 2 years prior. Id say when he was coming off the benching chucking 18 footers at a 30% rate in the second half of 2012-13, we can safely call that rock bottom.
                              It's Klaw Season. Time to hunt.

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                              • KeonClark wrote: View Post
                                Well, it wasn't "bargnani getting mercifully booed by his own teams fans every time he touched the ball" low for the 2 years prior. Id say when he was coming off the benching chucking 18 footers at a 30% rate in the second half of 2012-13, we can safely call that rock bottom.
                                Ok, well....I was booing him for 2 years prior.

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