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Bryan Colangelo - Updated Legacy?

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  • #31
    It doesn't really change anything for me. The negatives outweigh the positives for sure. Holding onto Bargs and Bosh for so long doomed this franchise.
    Twitter - @thekid_it

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    • #32
      Meh. I like Colangelo. I think he's a good GM. He's made some good moves that was supposed to put the Raps on top of the Eastern Conference like the JO trade and the Turkoglu signing. It just didn't work out.

      I know he overpaid to get Turk but Turk had a sensational year for the Magic the year before. And i thought JO still had something left in him when he traded for him.

      Biggest mistake he's made though(and it's a big one) was not getting anything back for Bosh. That really sets the franchise back.

      As for the Bargnani draft? it was a weak class. can't really blame him for taking a chance on AB.

      And the Rudy Gay trade. It's a trade to save his job.
      Mamba Mentality

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      • #33
        ebrian wrote: View Post
        Colangelo was always decent when it came to forecasting talent in drafts. In hindsight, the shortcomings of Bargnani weren't the real issue -- the real issue was rewarding that ridiculous contract to a person who had yet to display the level of talent deserving of such a contract.
        I argue this completely. That was one of his assets. He signed Demar to what we now see is a reasonable deal. We see Amir's deal that i didn't question but was a bit of a head scratcher now look like a bargain. The bargs deal although we all know how much we hate bargs was not awful. Where he had issues was free agency and we all know how brutally fkin awful he was. LK TURK Fields nash even tho we didn't get him.

        Just to add BC did a great job drafting. At the end of the day no matter whatever advice he received the picks are his credit or failure. Demar Davis JV Ross... you will be hard pressed to find a better player that was drafted after them. Yes there are some but no one is perfect, you do draft positional needs to a small extent but were all great picks. 3 are currently starting on a winning raptor ball club.

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        • #34
          You guys kill me. BC was an incredibly bad GM. You give credit for him drafting Ross, but wasn't Ross Casey's pick? Last I checked Casey is still with the team.

          But in case you forgot why he is bad, we have Landry Fields under contract -- because we were trying to get a senior citizen under contract! He held on to Bargs for WAY too long. Massive player turnover every year, and then questions of why there's no chemistry. Fired his best coach (because he wanted to discipline Bargs, was defense first, wasn't his "guy")...His "guy" was a solid assistant, but horrible head coach who was giving WAY too much time.

          I haven't even started with the desperate moves -- Gay, "Ball", JO, etc..the idea that the team was a "player away." Most importantly, Ed Davis is stuck on a BENCH in Memphis right now.

          Stop trying to rewrite history. I was asking for him to step down and let Masai run things years ago. A good amount of YOU GUYS agreed. Now that the team is doing well you're giving him praise?

          If a corporation is about to go bankrupt and a new CEO steps in, utilizes the talents of the employees better, and gets them into the black no one says, "Maybe the last CEO was good, his practices led to hiring all these amazing people." No! They say, "The last CEO was an idiot! He had all this talent around him and screwed up!"

          You guys kill me.

          Also, nothing wrong with drafting Bargs, but that extension was weird, and more importantly, for a GM who had a reputation for correcting his mistakes BC never moved Andrea when it was obvious that he had overpaid the kid.

          He was bad. It's okay. Dude's rich. He'll survive.

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          • #35
            We lost Ed Davis who right now would have been our starting power forward. I hope he comes back in free agency


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            • #36
              A bit surprised nobody's mentioned drafting JV. A savvy move at the time, it was also recognized that the 1 year wait might help cost Colangelo his job at a time when he was already approaching "win or your fired" territory.

              Not that I disagree with many of the criticisms here, but I think the narrative for his tenure is a bit oversimplified.
              "We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard

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              • #37
                S.R. wrote: View Post
                A bit surprised nobody's mentioned drafting JV. A savvy move at the time, it was also recognized that the 1 year wait might help cost Colangelo his job at a time when he was already approaching "win or your fired" territory.

                Not that I disagree with many of the criticisms here, but I think the narrative for his tenure is a bit oversimplified.
                Because that's how it was painted in the media with Colangelo's PR team. It was a no-brainer. The reason he wasn't on the Raps radar was because he was never supposed to fall to 5th in the draft. Everyone assumed at worst he'd go 4th because Cleveland could fully afford to wait a year or two to bring him over since they were destined to suck for that year or two.

                Every day I'm just very thankful Jonas fell to us, because I remember hearing that Bismack Biyombo was a very likely possibility if he hadn't. There was no pick to make at 5th with immediate returns in terms of a job saving move...Even Kawhi or Kemba, the guys I wanted, would not have done much to push us over any hump right away.

                *I mean, with a different view, you could also say drafting Jonas helped prolong Bryan's tenure. It made it seem like "well, I have a key piece coming over next year, give me that much time to have something in place for when he gets here". But BC's spin people, including preferred reporters, had his back from the start with the "oh, this is a gutsy move" rhetoric coming out right away. It really wasn't.
                Last edited by white men can't jump; Thu Jan 9th, 2014, 04:35 PM.

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                • #38
                  stooley wrote: View Post
                  BC made some good moves. But his numerous blunders kind of outweigh them.

                  That combination is what got us stuck on the 'treadmill'. Generally good moves with a few major blunders that ensured we'd never be contenders.
                  You say this, yet, Toronto is doing the EXACT same thing now, and the guy doing it is being treated like a god.

                  I love it.

                  Can't wait till 2 years from now....the hate for UM will be high.

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                  • #39
                    Craig wrote: View Post
                    You say this, yet, Toronto is doing the EXACT same thing now, and the guy doing it is being treated like a god.

                    I love it.

                    Can't wait till 2 years from now....the hate for UM will be high.
                    You're kidding right? Masai has totally cleaned up BC's mess. Yes the team has no clear path to jump to contenders, but we're lucky he was able to actually turn Bargnani and Gay into assets beyond a sack of ankle-tape and some Bengay.

                    You wanted an all-out tank. That was never likely because he'd have had to hold a firesale, where he would've never gotten good value back on all his assets (clearly MU's MO). Being impressed with what he's done so far isn't praising him for creating a "treadmill" team, it's for putting us in a situation where we aren't totally screwed for 2 seaons (which is what BC set up before leaving this summer).

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                    • #40
                      Craig wrote: View Post
                      You say this, yet, Toronto is doing the EXACT same thing now, and the guy doing it is being treated like a god.

                      I love it.

                      Can't wait till 2 years from now....the hate for UM will be high.
                      You trying to say Masai is not a good gm? I don't think any other GM could have possibly traded Bargnani and Gay within there first 6 months into the job
                      "Both teams played hard my man" - Sheed

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                      • #41
                        Burnit482 wrote: View Post
                        I argue this completely. That was one of his assets. He signed Demar to what we now see is a reasonable deal. We see Amir's deal that i didn't question but was a bit of a head scratcher now look like a bargain. The bargs deal although we all know how much we hate bargs was not awful. Where he had issues was free agency and we all know how brutally fkin awful he was. LK TURK Fields nash even tho we didn't get him.

                        Just to add BC did a great job drafting. At the end of the day no matter whatever advice he received the picks are his credit or failure. Demar Davis JV Ross... you will be hard pressed to find a better player that was drafted after them. Yes there are some but no one is perfect, you do draft positional needs to a small extent but were all great picks. 3 are currently starting on a winning raptor ball club.
                        But only DeMar was really "his" pick. And you always know BC's choices, because they become public weeks before the draft. Davis was a default choice because he was projected to go higher and fell to 13. Ross was Stefanski or Casey (or both?) depending on what you read/believe. Jonas was another default pick because he was never supposed to fall out of the top 4.

                        I don't think BC's a terrible drafter, but I don't give him full credit for every choice he made here. He also was always willing to trade picks if he saw a deal he liked (including 2nd rounders).

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                        • #42
                          You know only a couple comments in this thread address the OC - considering Colangelo brought in Lowry, DD, Ross, Amir, and Jonas, and considering how well this group is playing/how much some of these guys are continuing to develop, does that alter your opinion of his tenure with the Raps? At all? Even a little?

                          I'm honestly surprised that for many the answer appears to be "Not a bit."
                          "We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard

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                          • #43
                            S.R. wrote: View Post
                            You know only a couple comments in this thread address the OC - considering Colangelo brought in Lowry, DD, Ross, Amir, and Jonas, and considering how well this group is playing/how much some of these guys are continuing to develop, does that alter your opinion of his tenure with the Raps? At all? Even a little?

                            I'm honestly surprised that for many the answer appears to be "Not a bit."
                            Because that ignores that Colangelo clearly never envisioned a starting lineup that has all 5 of those guys in it. Again, we'd still have Gay if BC were here, and he'd probably be trading some of those guys trying to find a better fit next to Gay (and possibly even Bargs).

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                            • #44
                              I think you guys ingnore some seriously important stuff when you hammer Colangelo.


                              Masai, came in to a situation that was vastly different from what BC operated under.

                              BC had Richard Peddie, barking at him, with the MLSE board weighing HEAVY on moves he made. They said in the beginning it was all Bryans team, all his decisions, and anyone inside will tell you flat out, that wasn't true.

                              Pro sports are littered with franchises that have brutal, micromanaging, and meddling ownerships. In Toronto it was pretty bad. They had Colangelo running it precisely the same way they used to run the leafs. And we all know how that worked out.

                              So, new ownership. Guys say fuck this, get a President in here who is a sports guy, knows the pro sports landscape and has a bit of pull.... they nab TL.

                              With the Boards permission, something BC never had, TL immediately runs out, fires the scouts, and all the rest and hires the best available in the biz to start his new team. Do you all forget this? Masai is NOT the only new guy, he was also allowed to bring who he wanted. In a matter of months the franchise from the top down was completely renovated for the better.

                              So, Colangelo. He was far too attached to Bargnani. And i think there were a few reasons for that, some coming from on high. But the guy pulled off some seriously cool moves. Netted the best FA on the market, who, somehow forgot how to play basketball (turk), drafter a few good players, and basically assembled the roster that you all adore so much now.

                              So tell me, how can some people be as harsh with the guy as they are. Its way more complicated than people believe it is. He was a good gm. Had a few flaws, but none bad enough to warrant the BS he gets on Raptor Forums.

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                              • #45
                                S.R. wrote: View Post
                                You know only a couple comments in this thread address the OC - considering Colangelo brought in Lowry, DD, Ross, Amir, and Jonas, and considering how well this group is playing/how much some of these guys are continuing to develop, does that alter your opinion of his tenure with the Raps? At all? Even a little?

                                I'm honestly surprised that for many the answer appears to be "Not a bit."
                                BC brought some very good players to Toronto, and the current team is seeing the fruits of that labour. As we all know, the current starting line-up is entirely made up of players that BC brought here. I think this is, at least in part, a big reason why BC will eventually get another opportunity in the league. He has shown that he can make some good picks, and win a few trades.

                                He managed to trade away some mistakes of the previous front office, and corrected many of his own mistakes (ex. Turk for Barbosa). No one thought that Turk could be turned into something even remotely useful...and yet BC found a way.

                                I don't think that BC was incompetent at his job, as it appears like many others do. I think he was limited. He himself spoke of how someone like Ed had to rip the phone out of his hand so that he wouldn't jump the gun on anything. He was unimaginative and seemed to not take fit into consideration.

                                Our starting line-up of Lowry, Ross, DeMar, Amir, and JV are his guys...but I do not believe for an instance that this is the team he envisioned at any point.
                                http://twitter.com/m_shantz

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