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Zach Lowe on Lowry, Derozan and the 2014 All-Star Game

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  • #91
    Dr. James Naismith wrote: View Post
    You couldn't tell Craig comments where said in "tongue-in-cheek"? Ah well, my bad. I've known him since 2000-01, so I guess I saw more jest and not necessarily "attacking" in what said. Sorry man.
    It's ok. There was a heated discussion.

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    • #92
      Dr. James Naismith wrote: View Post
      You couldn't tell Craig comments where said in "tongue-in-cheek"? Ah well, my bad. I've known him since 2000-01, so I guess I saw more jest and not necessarily "attacking" in what said. Sorry man.
      I just thought there was an emphasis to eliminate name calling and personal attacks.

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      • #93
        psrs1 wrote: View Post
        I just thought there was an emphasis to eliminate name calling and personal attacks.
        No, you're absolutely right. Our bad.

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        • #94
          psrs1 wrote: View Post
          It's ok. There was a heated discussion.
          hey bud, I wasnt the guy tossing names around....just for the record.

          damn!

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          • #95
            Dr. James Naismith wrote: View Post
            No, you're absolutely right. Our bad.
            For heaven sake. "Narrow mind" is a personal attack? I understand the intent of the laws, but is the spirit to be taken to the namby-pamby level? What gets me is that almost all the time, the ones crying foul are the ones insulting even elementary school intelligence, while engaging in endless presentation of stupidity masked as "opinion". I've got no big issue with some stating something dumb once (we are all guilty), then taking their lumps like big boys. But to carry on, and on , and on, blindly ignoring the counter arguments is offensive. Let's just stop talking basketball and, hold hands, and sing "Michael row the boat ashore......".

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            • #96
              Alright, chill. Do we need to have every single mod in this thread to tell people to stop worrying about the word "Narrow-minded" and "idiotic"? IF you feel offended, it's easy to be polite, and be respectful to solve your problems. If you feel a different way than someone, and it's carried away from the topic on hand, apologize, or make your case PRIVATELY. I'm sure as HELL none of you want the public eye seeing you argue with another person.

              If you're going to blow it up for the rest of the users to see, it's only going to get worse (like it already hasn't).

              The thread, was about Zach Lowe on Lowry, DeRozan, and 2014 All-Star game. Get back to it. Now. Anymore posts? I will delete them. Figure it out on private chat, or personal message the mods if you would like this current problem solved. Ease up.
              Last edited by ReubenJRD; Wed Feb 5, 2014, 01:35 AM.

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              • #97
                Craig wrote: View Post
                Internet Messageboard passive aggressive professional technique 101.

                have at it, doesnt phase nor change what i have typed, which, is not opinion by the way, its fact.

                Whats to be open minded about in the posting of stats and win shares? whats to learn or accept? Its numbers, and we all know they are there. 14 year old kids can do thats shit all day longn and its fantasy sports mentality, and when guys like your two get on a messageboard and pontificate about how "idiotic" or useless an NBA GM is for a move they make, using PER, and WS, and whatever else to support your argument.....I'm sorry, I'm not likely to just eat it up as if it's some sort of brilliant commentary, it isn't.

                It takes a grown professional with years of experience, direct and acute insight into the situation, empathy and ability to deal with the MYRIAD of other issues that arise in every unique contract negotiation. Sometimes, they have to weigh the pain of a few extra million, against the value in making your employee happy. further to that, in the case of Toronto, a club that has had ZERO ability to retain any of its talent, the handling of their only high value prospect at the time was delicate at best, and if you guys believe using some silly YAHOO sports money mentality to make that call was the way to go , you're sadly mistaken. stop calling it opinion, it isn't. I would ask you, if you are so inclined to toss out ill thought out insults, to use your own advice. Often you like to white knight it all over my posts.... take some time to try to understand them, and once you do that, think about what Im typing and why before playing the role you play.

                Having said that, nothing is moot. demar Derozan was resigned early because at the time, that was the right move for the franchise, and for much more than just salary cap considerations.
                To the bold, I don't remember the Raps ever struggling to re-sign their own RESTRICTED free agents.

                ~~

                I wonder how being named an all-star will affect Demar's mindset. There are generally 3 ways it could go; 1 - he thinks he's finally arrived and lets up; 2 - he sees the LeBrons, Durants of the world in practice and steps it up; 3 - no change what-so-ever.

                I doubt he lets up and hope he finds another level, but as resigned to the reality that it is likely door #3.
                Heir, Prince of Cambridge

                If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

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                • #98
                  Axel wrote: View Post
                  To the bold, I don't remember the Raps ever struggling to re-sign their own RESTRICTED free agents.

                  ~~

                  I wonder how being named an all-star will affect Demar's mindset. There are generally 3 ways it could go; 1 - he thinks he's finally arrived and lets up; 2 - he sees the LeBrons, Durants of the world in practice and steps it up; 3 - no change what-so-ever.

                  I doubt he lets up and hope he finds another level, but as resigned to the reality that it is likely door #3.
                  Exactly.

                  For all the hoopla of losing guys, Raptors resigned both Carter and Bosh to extensions.

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    The weirdest thing about this board is that we can drop f-bombs but can't have a message all in caps.

                    Anyways, back on topic, here's another tidbit from the article, that Zach Lowe picked Afflalo over Demar.

                    Demar has the superior PER (partly due to slightly higher usage), free throw rate, rebounding %, assist %, steal %, block %, and turnover %.

                    Afflalo has a much better TS%.

                    Orlando is 24 games under .500 while we are 4 games over .500.

                    Now I like a good TS% as much as the next guy, but I think this is one of those cases where context matters.

                    Demar is assisted on buckets 10% less than Afflalo because he is expected to make things happen. Demar takes slightly more shots in tight situations.

                    Demar is also killing Afflalo in defensive PPP per synergy.

                    Now you can say context swings both ways, and that Afflalo has a weak (mostly inexperienced) supporting cast, but I think the focus on scoring efficiency sometimes blinds people to the bigger picture.

                    I think unless you are a superstar (like a KG) trapped in a bad situation, nobody on a team that far below .500 should be in the conversation for the All Star game. I'm even a little irked about Irving given their record and the reports coming out of Cleveland.

                    There is a price you pay to be the main guy on a winning team, and I think that sometimes goes unrecognized.

                    I do think Kyle should have been selected over all of these guys, Demar, Afflalo, Irving, even Wall and maybe even Wade. It sucks for him but I am certain if he keeps his play up he is a lock for it next year.

                    Comment


                    • Craig wrote: View Post
                      Internet Messageboard passive aggressive professional technique 101.

                      have at it, doesnt phase nor change what i have typed, which, is not opinion by the way, its fact.

                      Whats to be open minded about in the posting of stats and win shares? whats to learn or accept? Its numbers, and we all know they are there. 14 year old kids can do thats shit all day longn and its fantasy sports mentality, and when guys like your two get on a messageboard and pontificate about how "idiotic" or useless an NBA GM is for a move they make, using PER, and WS, and whatever else to support your argument.....I'm sorry, I'm not likely to just eat it up as if it's some sort of brilliant commentary, it isn't.

                      It takes a grown professional with years of experience, direct and acute insight into the situation, empathy and ability to deal with the MYRIAD of other issues that arise in every unique contract negotiation. Sometimes, they have to weigh the pain of a few extra million, against the value in making your employee happy. further to that, in the case of Toronto, a club that has had ZERO ability to retain any of its talent, the handling of their only high value prospect at the time was delicate at best, and if you guys believe using some silly YAHOO sports money mentality to make that call was the way to go , you're sadly mistaken. stop calling it opinion, it isn't. I would ask you, if you are so inclined to toss out ill thought out insults, to use your own advice. Often you like to white knight it all over my posts.... take some time to try to understand them, and once you do that, think about what Im typing and why before playing the role you play.

                      Having said that, nothing is moot. demar Derozan was resigned early because at the time, that was the right move for the franchise, and for much more than just salary cap considerations.
                      Talk about not reading posts, or reading way more into posts!

                      All I've said on the subject is that, in my opinion, I felt DeRozan's market value at the time of his signing was slightly less than $9.5M (I seem to recall suggesting $7-8M back then). I never questioned the decision to re-sign him.

                      At the time he was a RFA who was a one-dimensional, inefficient scorer, on a bad team. Based on other contract signings for similar players and the timing of the extension, it did seem like BC handed out a contract that was above market value. I also said that since it was a flat contract, it would likely wind up being a fair contract, even if it was a little high starting out.

                      I understand what you're saying about the art of negotiation and keeping your key players happy. However, I would argue that a GM also needs to rely on comparable players/contracts when determining contract details, especially given the nature of the CBA. None of us knows what did or didn't go on behind closed doors.

                      The reason I said this was a moot discussion was because we only know the facts about one possible outcome. None of us know for sure what would have happened had the extension not been handed out at that time. We also don't know what transpired during the negotiations; for all we know, BC did try to get a lower starting price and DeRozan's agent wouldn't bite. Hence, a moot point being debated.

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                      • ^^^^^^^^^^
                        Do you mods not talk to each other?

                        ReubenJRD wrote: View Post
                        Alright, chill. Do we need to have every single mod in this thread to tell people to stop worrying about the word "Narrow-minded" and "idiotic"? IF you feel offended, it's easy to be polite, and be respectful to solve your problems. If you feel a different way than someone, and it's carried away from the topic on hand, apologize, or make your case PRIVATELY. I'm sure as HELL none of you want the public eye seeing you argue with another person.

                        If you're going to blow it up for the rest of the users to see, it's only going to get worse (like it already hasn't).

                        The thread, was about Zach Lowe on Lowry, DeRozan, and 2014 All-Star game. Get back to it. Now. Anymore posts? I will delete them. Figure it out on private chat, or personal message the mods if you would like this current problem solved. Ease up.

                        Comment

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