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It's going to be hard to let Casey walk

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  • #16
    Uncle_Si wrote: View Post
    My biggest question is, can Casey grow into a championship head coach. I'm not sure he can but I don't know all that much anyway.
    I agree with this, but more importantly 'Can Casey grow into a championship head coach within the timeframe that it'll take the Raptors to become contenders'?

    And I don't have an answer either. Trying to grade a coach's learning curve is really difficult. It seems like Casey has grown as a coach tremendously from the beginning of the year to now, but I don't think it's like a player learning a post game where he progresses slowly for a long time and then the body and the muscle-memory and everything just falls into place and he suddenly makes a big improvement.

    Just like the players, I'm very curious to see how he performs in the playoffs. Certainly that was something he was lauded for in Dallas, in terms of game-to-game adjustments over the course of a series.

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    • #17
      Okay I don't understand some of you guys do you not see that Casey never makes any adjustments? I like a lot of what he does but he's extremely stubborn in what he does even if everyone can see it is not working he goes to it everytime and for the people looking at what the teams record, Masai himself said Casey is bit being judged on wins and loses. Also Lionel Hollins won 50 games last year and got fired so you can just say just cuz our record is 32-25 we should bring him back
      "Both teams played hard my man" - Sheed

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      • #18
        white men can't jump wrote: View Post
        I credit Masai more for the culture. All the players have said there was a totally different atmosphere after that hiring.

        Casey has done ok. But I don't think it would be hard to let him walk. His lack of originality, mismanagement of timeouts, and strange substitution patterns have still persisted through the season.

        The measuring stick isn't "has this coach done better than any coach in Raps history?", it's "is this guy someone who can take us to the highest level?". First and second round appearances don't equal the highest level. Heck, that's one reason I despise the idea thrown around here occasionally of hiring George Karl.

        Not saying it would be easy to find an obviously better coach, because there are very few obviously great coaches. But I don't think any success he has this year should warrant an automatic re-hiring.

        And on top of that, it also depends the direction the team takes in free agency. If Lowry leaves, and the team expects to take a step back, Masai might want a different approach altogether.
        I humbly disagree with your opinion white. not disregarding what Masai has done but even before Masai was here under Casey I've liked the culture behind the scenes. there is not internal fighting or cliques that I have ever seen, everyone gets along and is a good teammate to each other. Casey has never embarrassed his players in the media (he has critiqued but not often and never cruelly) the players play hard and love Casey and never upstage him in public. They are good "soldiers" in a sense under him

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        • #19
          now if u want to talk about substitutions or after time out plays that Casey needs to get better but I think he has done a great job creating a good atmosphere in the locker room (Colangelo does deserve credit too because Derozan, Johnson etc were all brought in by him and they are all good character guys )

          I do agree though I would get rid of him if a better coach was available ... sports is a cruel mistress

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          • #20
            we will have to see how he reacts in the playoffs. I know it would be tough for MU to let him walk after a season like this, but I think he should let him become our defensive coach (his specialty) and bring in a new head coach.

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            • #21
              Niagara Raptor wrote: View Post
              I humbly disagree with your opinion white. not disregarding what Masai has done but even before Masai was here under Casey I've liked the culture behind the scenes. there is not internal fighting or cliques that I have ever seen, everyone gets along and is a good teammate to each other. Casey has never embarrassed his players in the media (he has critiqued but not often and never cruelly) the players play hard and love Casey and never upstage him in public. They are good "soldiers" in a sense under him
              Yeah , but are you trying to say that Casey is the one who's changed the Culture? And that Casey is keep his guys in line like soldiers? Well im gonna disagree with you because its the GM who brings in the players that he feels will mesh well together. If we had a team full of J.R Smith's and MWP's the coach cannot change them to buy into what we want and have a good culture
              "Both teams played hard my man" - Sheed

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              • #22
                RaptorsForever wrote: View Post
                we will have to see how he reacts in the playoffs. I know it would be tough for MU to let him walk after a season like this, but I think he should let him become our defensive coach (his specialty) and bring in a new head coach.
                that sounds like a good idea but its not because your taking the head coach and making him and assistant on the same team he was just the head man at
                "Both teams played hard my man" - Sheed

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                • #23
                  wasn't Masai that brought most of these players in especially the main ones
                  jr smith is a good but extreme example and no one can save me but most players are reasonable people and the coach has to be there and be hands on managing them.
                  if a coach cant manage people or accepts incorrect behavior the pendulum swings the other way and u have instances like a couple years ago in Detroit where a bunch of players refuse to play

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                  • #24
                    TRex wrote: View Post
                    What the hell are you talking about?

                    I agree w/ ChristianL, Casey has done what he was hired to do and that's change the culture. He's brought a winning culture here. Raps are now one of the BEST defensive teams in the league. They were one of the worst if not the worst defensive team before Casey.

                    Also, DeRozan has developed his game, became an all-star under Casey. I also like where the development of Ross and JV is going. Lowry has also excelled and became one of the best PG's in the league w/ Casey as the coach.

                    I think you bring Dwane Casey back. To me it's a no brainer.
                    I strongly disagree with this sentiment.

                    There was no culture change during DC's first 2 seasons. The culture change started the day TL was hired.

                    Although the defense improved during DC's first season, it plummeted last season, before rebounding this season. A defensive specialist has only been successful instilling a defense-first philosophy in 2/3 of his tenure.

                    I think one could argue that DeRozan has been on a slow-and-steady progression since he was drafted, which started long before DC came to town. It could also be argued that adding guys like Gay & Lowry to learn from (BC), removing Bargnani as the #1/#1a option (injury/MU) and removing the black-hole formerly known as Gay (MU), were all far more valuable to DeRozan's development than anything DC did.

                    The Raps are playing well, winning and on track for the playoffs (thanks at least in some part to the historically weak EC), but that doesn't automatically make DC a great coach. Part of the culture change that TL has instilled is to stop considering Toronto as some second (at least) tier franchise in the NBA; as such, we should stop bargain shopping for coaches and aim for the best. If none are available then consider extending him, but I don't think it's the no brainer you do.

                    We'll all find out soon enough where TL/MU's heads are at, with regards to both the roster and the coaching staff.
                    Last edited by CalgaryRapsFan; Wed Feb 26, 2014, 07:08 PM.

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                    • #25
                      I really want to see how Casey performs in the playoffs. I want to see him going toe to toe against a coach in the chess match of strategies. I want to see how the Raps will execute knowing the other team is locked in on us; scouted us; devised a strategy to stop us at the point of attack. I want to see how Casey's rotations will look like in the playoffs.

                      So many things I want to see but I'm really excited for the playoffs. I give him credit for having the locker room in check and having his guys play & compete night in & night out. But if we're talking about taking the next step, I need to see his decision making come playoff time.
                      “I don’t create controversies. They’re there long before I open my mouth. I just bring them to your attention.”

                      -- Charles Barkley

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                      • #26
                        This a weird thread. If a Van Gundy, or Karl are available you make a change, otherwise, you keep the staff. 2 of the biggest signs of a poorly managed team are constant player turnover, and constant coaching turnover. If you want the Raps to be a stable franchise for once, you better hope Masai understands those 2 points.

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                        • #27
                          blackjitsu wrote: View Post
                          This a weird thread. If a Van Gundy, or Karl are available you make a change, otherwise, you keep the staff. 2 of the biggest signs of a poorly managed team are constant player turnover, and constant coaching turnover. If you want the Raps to be a stable franchise for once, you better hope Masai understands those 2 points.
                          One could also argue that an integral part of a culture change and rebranding, is to start fresh. The management team, behind-the-scenes staff, scouting department, assistant coaches and roster have all been significantly overhauled in less than a single season by TL/MU.

                          Had DC's contract expired a season earlier, I assume there would have been a 99.9% chance he wouldn't have been renewed, in light of the housecleaning. He was a lame-duck coach on a team that was intending to rebuild this season. Yes, the unexpected winning has been fantastic but if was such an easy decision for MU to make, why hasn't DC already been extended? I think bigger thinking and longer-term strategies are at play, but that's just me...

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                          • #28
                            Niagara Raptor wrote: View Post
                            I humbly disagree with your opinion white. not disregarding what Masai has done but even before Masai was here under Casey I've liked the culture behind the scenes. there is not internal fighting or cliques that I have ever seen, everyone gets along and is a good teammate to each other. Casey has never embarrassed his players in the media (he has critiqued but not often and never cruelly) the players play hard and love Casey and never upstage him in public. They are good "soldiers" in a sense under him
                            I was more referencing the "winning culture" perspective. From the perspective you mention, it's been solid for a long time. We didn't tend to have big issues under Triano or even Mitchell through most of the Bosh era (basically post-Carter).

                            But when you talk about guys buying into busting their ass, giving it their all to achieve success, there has been lots of talk about how Masai set the bar high and challenged players to meet that standard.

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                            • #29
                              Niagara Raptor wrote: View Post
                              I humbly disagree with your opinion white. not disregarding what Masai has done but even before Masai was here under Casey I've liked the culture behind the scenes. there is not internal fighting or cliques that I have ever seen, everyone gets along and is a good teammate to each other. Casey has never embarrassed his players in the media (he has critiqued but not often and never cruelly) the players play hard and love Casey and never upstage him in public. They are good "soldiers" in a sense under him
                              This wasn't true while Rudy was on the team.
                              "Stop eating your sushi."
                              "I do actually have a pair of Uggs."
                              "I've had three cups of green tea tonight. I'm wired. I'm absolutely wired."
                              - Jack Armstrong

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                              • #30
                                Hey, Denver dumped Karl after an excellent season last year. Worked out well for them, no?
                                If we knew half as much about coaching an NBA team as we think, we"d know twice as much as we do.

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