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  • LJ2 wrote: View Post
    And what are Demar's numbers with/without Lowry? I'm guessing better with Lowry, and if that is the case it's a tricky balance not playing them together.
    With Lowry: 24/5/4 with 3 TOV per 36 on 30% usage, drawing 8.9 FA's per 36 with a +1 net rating.
    Without Lowry: 36/3/5 with 3 TOV per 36 on 42% usage, drawing 13.0 FTA's per 36 with a +7.5 net rating.

    Difference here is DeMar has actually gotten these opportunities, with 83 minutes away from Kyle, twice Kyle's time with the bench (though that number should ideally go up as well).

    Both stars individually have been having a lot of individual and team success away from each other, just like they do every year. We're just not giving them those opportunities as much this year.
    twitter.com/dhackett1565

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    • DanH wrote: View Post
      ...Both stars individually have been having a lot of individual and team success away from each other, just like they do every year. We're just not giving them those opportunities as much this year.
      It's like you almost never post unless you have thought about something, and then checked the numbers. Hardly fair on this board Dan. Give everyone a break and just throw darts once in a while.
      :-)

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      • Lowry looked really good last night, maybe best he has yet. The shot is there and the quickness, too. Several blow bys to the basket.
        "We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard

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        • S.R. wrote: View Post
          Lowry looked really good last night, maybe best he has yet. The shot is there and the quickness, too. Several blow bys to the basket.
          Yep he's just taking a bit fewer iso plays for himself, which is fine, hence the numbers lately being about 18 ppg instead of 22.

          Here's what's really exciting: the team is finding ways to win games with a "decent" lowry. In the past our playoff failure was defined by lowry not being great and role players not stepping up. Well to me this is exhibit a of the culture change working: Lowry has at many times looked bad or passive his year, yet we've kept afloat either way. We're not relying on his playing like a super star anymore.
          It's Klaw Season. Time to hunt.

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          • DanH wrote: View Post
            Yeah, what was I thinking that it would even be worth bringing up a 36 minute sample. I guess if I'd started an entire thread based on it that would have made more sense.



            That last lineup had played 28 minutes at the time. And yet, relevant enough to bring up. And make an entire thread about. And that's to evaluate lineup ratings, which are extremely noisy compared to individual player scoring numbers.

            After last night, Lowry has now played 44 minutes away from DeMar on the year.

            With DeMar: 15/8/6 with 3 TOV per 36 on 20% usage, drawing 2.4 FA's per 36 with a +1 net rating.
            Without DeMar: 21/7/6 with 1 TOV per 36 on 25% usage, drawing 6.6 FTA's per 36 with a +22 net rating.

            Heck, I'm not even relying on this year's sample - my point is that the formula with Lowry getting minutes to go off with the bench has worked great for years now, and he's taken a step back in the year where suddenly he doesn't get many minutes there, AND in the few minutes he has gotten there he looks more like vintage Lowry, much to the surprise of no one who pays attention.
            Except that lineup had over 100 minutes of data from last year also and in the playoffs so not the same at all.

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            • Shaolin Fantastic wrote: View Post
              Except that lineup had over 100 minutes of data from last year also and in the playoffs so not the same at all.
              Yeah, which is exactly what I'm saying - Lowry and DD have had tremendous success apart from each other, not for 100 minutes last year but for 3 straight entire freaking seasons, and yet the small sample current season is not worth bringing up even with those actual literal years of supporting data, but your 100 minutes of lineup data (with Carroll in Powell's place no less) is plenty enough. I guess I don't understand the rules.
              twitter.com/dhackett1565

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              • Guess not then.

                EDIT: The reason I said that is because every time I present any data you disagree with you dismiss it entirely by saying it's not statistically significant. Then have the gall to do the same thing.

                And btw the Lowry-DD-Powell-Ibaka-JV lineup has play just under 120 minutes and is a -3.9. I get it, JV is your favourite player so any time someone brings up a stat that paints him negatively you'll look for ways to dismiss it. Kind of like people used to do with DeRozan before he got good in his 5th year.
                Last edited by Shaolin Fantastic; Wed Nov 15th, 2017, 01:07 PM.

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                • DanH wrote: View Post
                  With Lowry: 24/5/4 with 3 TOV per 36 on 30% usage, drawing 8.9 FA's per 36 with a +1 net rating.
                  Without Lowry: 36/3/5 with 3 TOV per 36 on 42% usage, drawing 13.0 FTA's per 36 with a +7.5 net rating.

                  Difference here is DeMar has actually gotten these opportunities, with 83 minutes away from Kyle, twice Kyle's time with the bench (though that number should ideally go up as well).

                  Both stars individually have been having a lot of individual and team success away from each other, just like they do every year. We're just not giving them those opportunities as much this year.
                  Wow, monster numbers by both of them when playing apart. Would never have thought Demar would be that good without Lowry taking away some of the attention from the defence. Perhaps it's another benefit of the new offence and increase in perimeter shooting. Keeps the floor spread out for DD to work.

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                  • Shaolin Fantastic wrote: View Post
                    Guess not then.

                    EDIT: The reason I said that is because every time I present any data you disagree with you dismiss it entirely by saying it's not statistically significant. Then have the gall to do the same thing.

                    And btw the Lowry-DD-Powell-Ibaka-JV lineup has play just under 120 minutes and is a -3.9. I get it, JV is your favourite player so any time someone brings up a stat that paints him negatively you'll look for ways to dismiss it. Kind of like people used to do with DeRozan before he got good in his 5th year.
                    Huh? Are we talking about that lineup right now? I thought we were discussing sample sizes, and supporting historical context.

                    And hey, if the lineup data then was good enough to bring up as a reason to change things (it wasn't, and still isn't), why not look at another 28 minute lineup? Like the starters with OG in Powell's place? +24 net rating. Bam. Problem solved.

                    I brought up Lowry just to show that he is still finding success in his non-DD minutes - his malaise in general has not translated to his bench unit minutes. It's not a projection for what is sustainable - for that I rely on what I assumed was general knowledge here that Lowry has been kicking ass with the bench unit for the entirety of the post-Rudy-Gay era we are living in, a slightly larger sample than the 36 successful minutes he'd had at the time of my post.
                    twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                    • LJ2 wrote: View Post
                      Wow, monster numbers by both of them when playing apart. Would never have thought Demar would be that good without Lowry taking away some of the attention from the defence. Perhaps it's another benefit of the new offence and increase in perimeter shooting. Keeps the floor spread out for DD to work.
                      Plus, when the stars get minutes in bench units, they get to face bench competition. It tends to go well for them.
                      twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                      • why does Kyle look like a cauliflower
                        OG is our king

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                        • The unique shape helps to balance his shot as well as acts like a cushion every time a 7 footer runs into him.

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                          • FWIW: Lowry is playing a hair under 32 minutes per game so far this season, which puts him tied with Malcolm Brogdon for 57th in the league.

                            DeMar is tied for 19th, at 34.5 MPG. LeBron is leading the league again at 38 MPG (he just played 46 minutes today in an overtime win against the Clippers)
                            The name's Bond, James Bond.

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                            • 007 wrote: View Post
                              FWIW: Lowry is playing a hair under 32 minutes per game so far this season, which puts him tied with Malcolm Brogdon for 57th in the league.
                              I think that is sustainable, but I expect to see his minutes go up with no Wright. I wonder if Norm's floor time increases?

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                              • 007 wrote: View Post
                                FWIW: Lowry is playing a hair under 32 minutes per game so far this season, which puts him tied with Malcolm Brogdon for 57th in the league.

                                DeMar is tied for 19th, at 34.5 MPG. LeBron is leading the league again at 38 MPG (he just played 46 minutes today in an overtime win against the Clippers)
                                Keeping Kyle's minutes down is important. Hopefully that way we don't see any injuries and more excuses in the playoffs about him playing through this or that.

                                Let's try to get this team fully healthy going into the playoffs and go as far as possible.

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