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  • JawsGT wrote: View Post
    It would certainly help if Lowry was shooting a higher percentage from 3, but other than that this is the best Lowry we've seen in a Raps uni as far as I'm concerned. I've always thought that Lowry should be more of a general than a scorer, and finally we have the personnel to allow him to embrace that role. He's very suited to be a 3rd or 4th on offence while focusing on distributing and running the team and hes doing it very well thid season.
    Some of you guys just lie through your teeth.

    The best Lowry we've seen in Toronto was 2016-17 regular season Kyle. By far.

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    • Shaolin Fantastic wrote: View Post
      The top players in +/- are basically the guys who play the most on the best teams.

      It's not a surprise that these are almost all good players.
      That's pretty obvious, but the real problem with using raw +/- data is identifying good players surrounded by bad supporting casts and exposing lesser players who are elevated by transcendent players.

      Kyrie Irving, for example, had a raw +/- of -218 (445th overall) in 2013-14 and the next year had a raw +/- of +422 (14th overall) in 2014-15. Did Kyrie get better overnight? Of course, we all know Lebron is the reason why that happened, which is why you need advanced stats that can adjust for things like that, like RPM, PIPM, etc...

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      • golden wrote: View Post
        That's pretty obvious, but the real problem with using raw +/- data is identifying good players surrounded by bad supporting casts and exposing lesser players who are elevated by transcendent players.

        Kyrie Irving, for example, had a raw +/- of -218 (445th overall) in 2013-14 and the next year had a raw +/- of +422 (14th overall) in 2014-15. Did Kyrie get better overnight? Of course, we all know Lebron is the reason why that happened, which is why you need advanced stats that can adjust for things like that, like RPM, PIPM, etc...
        Yeah, there are multiple issues with +/- stats. Raw +/- for individuals as a measure of talent is obviously complete nonsense, as it ignores way too much context.

        The issue in hockey is not just that, but also the sample size. At least in basketball you are getting a decent sample that overrides the noise, even if +/- isn't measuring player talent, just team success with that player. That's why it makes much more sense to look at lineups when evaluating +/- stats - you are evaluating the same thing that the statistic is measuring, how well that lineup performs on the court. In hockey even lineup +/- is completely over-ridden by noise (shooting and save percentages, primarily luck driven variance).
        twitter.com/dhackett1565

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        • Shaolin Fantastic wrote: View Post
          Some of you guys just lie through your teeth.

          The best Lowry we've seen in Toronto was 2016-17 regular season Kyle. By far.
          Floor general Lowry is the Lowry I've always wanted on this team. He hasn't really been that until this season. In the past, maybe the team needed Lowry to be a scorer, this current team certainly doesn't and he's been running the team as well as anyone can. He needs the better 3pt shot for sure but this team needs Lowry playing the way he has been this season, not Lowry from past seasons. I'll take Nurses Lowry over Casey's Lowry any day of the week.

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          • JawsGT wrote: View Post
            Floor general Lowry is the Lowry I've always wanted on this team. He hasn't really been that until this season. In the past, maybe the team needed Lowry to be a scorer, this current team certainly doesn't and he's been running the team as well as anyone can. He needs the better 3pt shot for sure but this team needs Lowry playing the way he has been this season, not Lowry from past seasons. I'll take Nurses Lowry over Casey's Lowry any day of the week.
            Kyle was a legit top 8 player in 2016/17 and he was still a great passer. The ball didn’t stick. I’ll take that Kyle over a lot of guys in the league right now.

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            • Maury wrote: View Post
              Kyle was a legit top 8 player in 2016/17 and he was still a great passer. The ball didn’t stick. I’ll take that Kyle over a lot of guys in the league right now.
              90% of those passes were to DeMar. lol.

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              • golden wrote: View Post
                90% of those passes were to DeMar. lol.
                Yeah, and the other 10% were his assists
                9 time first team all-RR, First Ballot Hall of Forum

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                • Maury wrote: View Post
                  Kyle was a legit top 8 player in 2016/17 and he was still a great passer. The ball didn’t stick. I’ll take that Kyle over a lot of guys in the league right now.
                  I'll take current lowry with the 41% from 3 😉

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                  • Hey Lowry.
                    Don't look now but Mike Conley is making your former whipping boy look like Shaq.


                    Maybe if you and Derozan hadn't play'd keep away from eveyone else for 5 years you'd have acomplished more.

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                    • Superjudge wrote: View Post
                      Hey Lowry.
                      Don't look now but Mike Conley is making your former whipping boy look like Shaq.


                      Maybe if you and Derozan hadn't play'd keep away from eveyone else for 5 years you'd have acomplished more.
                      Actually I thought Lowry had the best record of passing to JV of anyone on the team during JV's tenure with the Raps. Can't pass to him if he's not on the court.

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                      • Superjudge wrote: View Post
                        Hey Lowry.
                        Don't look now but Mike Conley is making your former whipping boy look like Shaq.


                        Maybe if you and Derozan hadn't play'd keep away from eveyone else for 5 years you'd have acomplished more.
                        Definitely the wrong person to be blaming anything on here given that Lowry ALSO helped JV look really good as their chemistry was fantastic. The biggest difference now is just that JV is getting more touches there than here and that's not on Lowry.

                        JV is looking absolutely fantastic though.
                        "My biggest concern as a coach is to not confuse winning with progress." - Steve Kerr
                        "If it's unacceptable in defeat, it's unacceptable in victory." - Jeff Van Gundy

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                        • JV had 20 and 13 in 25 minutes against the Lakers. That's what he normally did as a Raptor.

                          If you think that's a Shaq like performance then you must have had your eyes closed when he was a Raptor.

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                          • Verrrrrrrry small sample size but his TS% is actually down a touch in Memphis and almost everything else is up, some big jumps:

                            Toronto vs. Memphis #'s:

                            Per 36 FGA 16.5 > 21.7

                            USG% 25.6 > 35.5

                            Per game PTS/REB 13&7 > 20&10

                            Pretty unlikely he keeps averaging 20&10 in 25 mpg. That would have to be some kind of first.


                            Fun stat since we traded him for a passing big:
                            AST% 8.5 > 19.2
                            "We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard

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                            • Just Is wrote: View Post
                              Definitely the wrong person to be blaming anything on here given that Lowry ALSO helped JV look really good as their chemistry was fantastic. The biggest difference now is just that JV is getting more touches there than here and that's not on Lowry.

                              JV is looking absolutely fantastic though.
                              I always thought they under utilized him, the pg and 2 guard positions were black holes

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                              • Superjudge wrote: View Post
                                I always thought they under utilized him, the pg and 2 guard positions were black holes
                                They weren’t the reason why he was under utilized. Casey was.

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