Everything Kyle Lowry

[DanH]

Bonafide superstar?? Do you consider Lowry to be a superstar?

Did you see the way he played since before the all-star break and also in the playoffs? Superstars don't play like that. He was awful on both sides of the ball.

I love a healthy Lowry but I don't consider him a superstar at all. He's a very good player when healthy. Unfortunately, the evidence is right there to see what happens when he's not 100 percent healthy. It's a train wreck.

I'm not saying we'd necessarily win more, but I think with the better defensive players we added, we would do just fine with a solid PG.

Not sure why we'd need a bonafide superstar coming back when we're not even sending one out.






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When did I say Lowry was a bonafide superstar? I didn't. I said there'd better be one coming back, because Lowry does a LOT to help a team win, and that's not easily replaced, let alone improved on.

[Just Is]

Bonafide superstar?? Do you consider Lowry to be a superstar?

Did you see the way he played since before the all-star break and also in the playoffs? Superstars don't play like that. He was awful on both sides of the ball.

I love a healthy Lowry but I don't consider him a superstar at all. He's a very good player when healthy. Unfortunately, the evidence is right there to see what happens when he's not 100 percent healthy. It's a train wreck.

I'm not saying we'd necessarily win more, but I think with the better defensive players we added, we would do just fine with a solid PG.

Not sure why we'd need a bonafide superstar coming back when we're not even sending one out.

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There's a reason the Raptors season went to shit when Lowry went down.

[special1]

And the bold is why we were a .500 team during that time.

That's actually pretty good when your starting PG played like a DLeague scrub from February until the end of the season.

I'm actually quite amazed we stayed around .500 .....No one else really stepped up when Demar was out except Lowry and maybe Lou. Lowry did play like a superstar for a month. Obviously, that was unsustainable.

Like I said, Lowry's a very good player when healthy. The way he ended the season and playoffs has me a bit worried... I'm not going to lie.






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[special1]

When did I say Lowry was a bonafide superstar? I didn't. I said there'd better be one coming back, because Lowry does a LOT to help a team win, and that's not easily replaced, let alone improved on.

Lol

Ok DanH. You never said he was a bonafide superstar.....you said we'd need one coming back in a trade to win more. I disagree. However, we both agree that he IS NOT a superstar.


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[special1]

Everything Kyle Lowry

There's a reason the Raptors season went to shit when Lowry went down.

I imagine the reason is because our starting PG went from playing like a superstar to playing like a DLeague scrub with lost confidence and horrible defence. The whole team lost confidence.

Edit: I didn't think you meant the games he sat out near the end of the season. Small sample size.


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[JimiCliff]

That's actually pretty good when your starting PG played like a DLeague scrub from February until the end of the season.

You're missing the point.

The point is, Lowry's been driving the bus the past two season, and without him playing at a very high level, we're a borderline playoff team. Which is why Dan is saying that if he's traded, a whole lot better come back, or we'll be...a borderline playoff team.

[JimiCliff]

Also, this 'superstar' talk is ridiculous. What does it even mean? Lowry has won us an insane number of games the past two years. He almost single-handedly turned this franchise around. Very few players have had more impact on their team in that time. Who fucking cares if some people don't want to call him a superstar.

[Uncle_Si]

Lol

Ok DanH. You never said he was a bonafide superstar.....you said we'd need one coming back in a trade to win more. I disagree. However, we both agree that he IS NOT a superstar.


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Of course he's not a superstar, but he brings a lot to this team. It's amazing how quickly people forget what he did for this team. Ya, he played like shit for the last couple months of the season, we get that. But there was obviously more going on with him than what was let on.

Also, having a more reliable playmaker off the bench and a defensive minded PG in Joseph should ease some of the workload for Lowry.

Now we won't have to watch a beat up Lowry chase Wall through a million screens every game.

[GLF]

I just don't like that when he gets injured it either takes him forever to get back into form or he doesn't get back into form at all. Everyone gets injured and he's going to get injured again. He needs to learn to still play respectable through injuries and fatigue. It's not like he had some serious injury where he had to get surgery or be out for many months. If everytime he gets a small injury or gets tired he's gonna play like he did in the second half of the season then maybe we should get rid of him cause to me thats unacceptable for your leader and all star.

[special1]

Of course he's not a superstar, but he brings a lot to this team. It's amazing how quickly people forget what he did for this team. Ya, he played like shit for the last couple months of the season, we get that. But there was obviously more going on with him than what was let on.

Also, having a more reliable playmaker off the bench and a defensive minded PG in Joseph should ease some of the workload for Lowry.

Now we won't have to watch a beat up Lowry chase Wall through a million screens every game.

I agree.

I feel much better now that we have some defensive PGs to help Lowry out. Maybe I was a bit too harsh on Lowry.

I agree that he brings a lot to the team and he deserves as much credit for the franchise turnaround as anyone else.


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[special1]

I just don't like that when he gets injured it either takes him forever to get back into form or he doesn't get back into form at all. Everyone gets injured and he's going to get injured again. He needs to learn to still play respectable through injuries and fatigue. It's not like he had some serious injury where he had to get surgery or be out for many months. If everytime he gets a small injury or gets tired he's gonna play like he did in the second half of the season then maybe we should get rid of him cause to me thats unacceptable for your leader and all star.

This was my thinking.

I gave it some thought now and at least we have a solid option in Joseph backing him up. Hopefully more ball movement and better defence will give Lowry more rest and prevent a physical/psychological collapse like last year.


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[GLF]

This was my thinking.

I gave it some thought now and at least we have a solid option in Joseph backing him up. Hopefully more ball movement and better defence will give Lowry more rest and prevent a physical/psychological collapse like last year.


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Yea big part of his problem last year was DD getting injured and sitting out for so long. Kyle then had to do it all. He played sooooo hard the first few games after DD got injured. And I think that fatigue crept in and messed him up. DD doesn't normally get injured so you would hope and think he stays healthy this year. Another issue was Greivis. Kyle couldn't stay on the bench for long because anytime GV and Lou came into the game the defense went to even more shit. They are both gone and replaced with better defenders so hopefully this helps as well. But it still doesn't take away from the fact that he needs to learn to play through injuries a little better. He can't be going into a like 2-3 month slump. That's unacceptable.

[DanH]

Kyle carried a crazy usage (29%, really high for a PG who will also have a lot of secondary usage via assists - he assisted on 40% of field goals while he was out there - meaning he carried 70% of the offence) while DD was out. Really screwed him up and burnt him out. Casey completely mismanaged that situation - we had a huge cushion for wins, but he rode Kyle an insane amount - and it wasn't even to keep Vasquez off the floor because he would play them together!

That was a great opportunity to spread some offence around to a more PnR oriented game or try JV out in the post to stretch him out while DD recovered, but instead Lowry just took on both his own and DeMar's offensive roles.

[Snooch]

I think Lowry is now expendable. I know it is hard to comapre apples to oranges, but.

Joseph is a better defender, and is younger, and is bigger and is a better shooter.

On a per 100 possessions basis, Lowry scores more and passes more, but offensive rating is only 1 point better for Lowry, and defensive rating is 4 points better for Joseph.

Lowry shoots threes better last season at 34% to 31%, but Joseph has the higher TS%

Their winshare/48 has Lowry at .136 to joseph .131

Could be a year to let the kid go and see what happens, especially with capspace next offseason and potential return for Lowry.

[golden]

This was my thinking.

I gave it some thought now and at least we have a solid option in Joseph backing him up. Hopefully more ball movement and better defence will give Lowry more rest and prevent a physical/psychological collapse like last year.


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I guess we're all hoping that Lowry's "collapse" was due to overuse and Casey's system, because the other alternative isn't so nice to consider. Game planning. Even the players themselves were quoted multiple times as saying that the Raps were suddenly being scouted better by opposing coaching staffs, so teams were targeting Lowry and DD as first and second options.

When the game planning elevates, this is where you need that "true superstar", who can be slowed down but not stopped their tracks, like Lowry and DD were against better teams in the regular season. And of course, there was that train wreck in the playoffs (against Randy Wittman, of all coaches - smh). And even with true superstars, you also need coaching adjustments, but that horse has been beaten to death.