Everything Kyle Lowry

[KeonClark]

Meanwhile the Big Ticket led the league in rebounding 4 years in a row from 2003-2007.

Not to mention routinely averaging over 5 dimes a game with a very conservative turnover rate for a big on the ball that often.

I mean even just looking at win shares, KG put up 18.3 in his MVP year and was over 11 for his whole prime. Sheed hit 11 once and that was before he even went to Detroit.

Could Sheed have been better? Sure I guess, he wasn't exactly a low motor guy he just had attitude problems. But either way there is no way he could've been as good as KG, KG was just on another level.

Oh no question, for an entire decade, kg was year in and out the #1 among power forwards for offense, defense and rebounding. All time great, first ballot hof, etc etc

[Barolt]

Oh no question, for an entire decade, kg was year in and out the #1 among power forwards for offense, defense and rebounding. All time great, first ballot hof, etc etc

Are we ignoring that Tim Duncan was in the NBA that decade?

[KeonClark]

Are we ignoring that Tim Duncan was in the NBA that decade?

lol true, I'm a couple/few beers deep at this point. I always consider Duncan a C in my head

[rightsideup]

man these threads do get off track although talking about kg,td and so on brings up time when pf was the position in the leauge now its the pgs. I was just watching open gym and they showed a highlight of kyle in the golden-state game dropping a beautiful dime to bebe. so i have a question to people who have observed kyle as he developed thru his career. what part of his game has grown the most to become a two time allstar

[Just Is]

Are we ignoring that Tim Duncan was in the NBA that decade?

Wasn't this always one of the largest debates? Who was the better PF between Duncan and Garnett?

[JWash]

Wasn't this always one of the largest debates? Who was the better PF between Duncan and Garnett?

Yes. This is why it's really a stretch to say Sheed could've been as good as KG. KG was on Duncan's level he just didn't have the rings because his teams in Minnesota were for the most part, garbage. And he went through a slew of mediocre coaches including, Casey for a year and a half lol.

Dirk started to insert his name into that conversation when he won in 2011, but to me even he's a notch below those other two because he never brought the insane defensive impact that they did.

[KHD]

Wasn't this always one of the largest debates? Who was the better PF between Duncan and Garnett?

not much of a debate.

KG had a few years where he was possibly better than Duncan. But Duncan was miles better for much longer.

Not to mention the fact that Duncan didn't care about his own numbers as long as they were winning and was willing to defer to a coach for the betterment of his team... something not many superstars want to do (*cough* LEBRON *cough cough*)


Edit: IMO, the only way you could conclude KG was better than Duncan was if you looked at box scores only and never actually saw Tim Duncan in his prime.

[Just Is]

Yes. This is why it's really a stretch to say Sheed could've been as good as KG. KG was on Duncan's level he just didn't have the rings because his teams in Minnesota were for the most part, garbage. And he went through a slew of mediocre coaches including, Casey for a year and a half lol.

Dirk started to insert his name into that conversation when he won in 2011, but to me even he's a notch below those other two because he never brought the insane defensive impact that they did.

I always liked Dirk but yeah; he's just below the other two. Heck, I think the only reason this is no longer a debate is because of how long Duncan's remained productive and ring count. Garnett was on a LOT of garbage teams but was able to carry them further than they should have gotten.

[JWash]

How did a Lowry thread turn into a greatest PF of all time discussion btw lol?

[Just Is]

not much of a debate.

KG had a few years where he was possibly better than Duncan. But Duncan was miles better for much longer.

Not to mention the fact that Duncan didn't care about his own numbers as long as they were winning and was willing to defer to a coach for the betterment of his team... something not many superstars want to do (*cough* LEBRON *cough cough*)


Edit: IMO, the only way you could conclude KG was better than Duncan was if you looked at box scores only and never actually saw Tim Duncan in his prime.

I watched both (heck, for a while they actually were my two favourite players in the league).

It's a legitimately good question and the only reason you can pretty much give it to Duncan is because of longevity (as, even if you did think KG had a higher peak, Duncan's had a longer peak).

How did a Lowry thread turn into a greatest PF of all time discussion btw lol?

Cause Lowry's going to become the greatest PF of all time, of course.

He's due for a growth spurt.

[KHD]

I watched both (heck, for a while they actually were my two favourite players in the league).

It's a legitimately good question and the only reason you can pretty much give it to Duncan is because of longevity (as, even if you did think KG had a higher peak, Duncan's had a longer peak).


Cause Lowry's going to become the greatest PF of all time, of course.


He's due for a growth spurt.

Longevity is only part of it.

In prime, per/100 playoff numbers:

TD 03: 30.6pts/.577TS%/19.8TRB%/25.5AST%/12.9TOV%/.8STL%/5.8BLK%/116ORTG/92DRTG/.279WS48

KG 04: 29.9PTS/.513TS%/19.3TRB%/24.1AST%/14.9TOV%/1.6STL%/3.9BLK%/100ORTG/95DRTG/.163WS48

Not just longevity. Peak Duncan in the playoffs was miles ahead of peak Garnett.

Let's not forget the '03 spurs. Duncan was the only all-star. They took down the Shaq-Kobe lakers.

Let's not forget that Duncan's spurs were great before Tony and Manu became TONY! and GINOBILI!

let's not forget that Duncan was an offence creator (assisted on 48% of buckets) compared to KG (assisted on 66% of buckets).

For all the talk about Garnett's defensive versatility, it was Duncan who anchored (and still anchors) the best defense since Bill Russel's Celtics.

[white men can't jump]

Longevity is only part of it.

In prime, per/100 playoff numbers:

TD 03: 30.6pts/.577TS%/19.8TRB%/25.5AST%/12.9TOV%/.8STL%/5.8BLK%/116ORTG/92DRTG/.279WS48

KG 04: 29.9PTS/.513TS%/19.3TRB%/24.1AST%/14.9TOV%/1.6STL%/3.9BLK%/100ORTG/95DRTG/.163WS48

Not just longevity. Peak Duncan in the playoffs was miles ahead of peak Garnett.

Let's not forget the '03 spurs. Duncan was the only all-star. They took down the Shaq-Kobe lakers.

Let's not forget that Duncan's spurs were great before Tony and Manu became TONY! and GINOBILI!

let's not forget that Duncan was an offence creator (assisted on 48% of buckets) compared to KG (assisted on 66% of buckets).

For all the talk about Garnett's defensive versatility, it was Duncan who anchored (and still anchors) the best defense since Bill Russel's Celtics.

Duncan is still underrated, even though he's arguably the best big man to ever play the game and arguably a top 5 player of all time. If Duncan's not at least in your top 10, you shouldn't be allowed to watch basketball.

[KHD]

Duncan is still underrated, even though he's arguably the best big man to ever play the game and arguably a top 5 player of all time. If Duncan's not at least in your top 10, you shouldn't be allowed to watch basketball.

it's because he's "boring". An argument I don't understand to this day. Honestly IMO it's way more boring watching Curry hurl up 30 footers.

[Just Is]

Longevity is only part of it.

In prime, per/100 playoff numbers:

TD 03: 30.6pts/.577TS%/19.8TRB%/25.5AST%/12.9TOV%/.8STL%/5.8BLK%/116ORTG/92DRTG/.279WS48

KG 04: 29.9PTS/.513TS%/19.3TRB%/24.1AST%/14.9TOV%/1.6STL%/3.9BLK%/100ORTG/95DRTG/.163WS48

Not just longevity. Peak Duncan in the playoffs was miles ahead of peak Garnett.

Let's not forget the '03 spurs. Duncan was the only all-star. They took down the Shaq-Kobe lakers.

Let's not forget that Duncan's spurs were great before Tony and Manu became TONY! and GINOBILI!

let's not forget that Duncan was an offence creator (assisted on 48% of buckets) compared to KG (assisted on 66% of buckets).

For all the talk about Garnett's defensive versatility, it was Duncan who anchored (and still anchors) the best defense since Bill Russel's Celtics.

Not even going to attempt to debate you on this (seeing as how I agree with Duncan over Garnett).

Keep in mind though that Duncan's had the benefit of playing on significantly better teams then Garnett as well as playing for the best Coach in the history of the NBA for that entire duration. All I'm pointing out is that this was one of the longest debates that I've seen as a basketball fan.

[KHD]

Not even going to attempt to debate you on this (seeing as how I agree with Duncan over Garnett).

Keep in mind though that Duncan's had the benefit of playing on significantly better teams then Garnett as well as playing for the best Coach in the history of the NBA for that entire duration. All I'm pointing out is that this was one of the longest debates that I've seen as a basketball fan.

That's probably true. But KG had season with good teammates and Duncan had seasons with bad teammates as well.

Honestly for some reason it seems like "Prime KG" has become some mythical figure of unparalleled basketball ability. When, if you actually look back, Prime Duncan was doing it just as well or better.

Anyways, both great players but for me it's no question who was better.