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Is the cost of 3rd place too high? A plea for 6th

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  • Is the cost of 3rd place too high? A plea for 6th

    I know this thread will earn a few groans, but a thought stemmed from the Everything JV thread, where Stooley made a comment to the effect of "JV playing more minutes doesn't help us win games but it does help his development"; which got me thinking, at this point, what matters more?

    At the beginning of the season, it was all tank vs play-off experience. Now though, the question is, does it really matter which seed we get in the playoffs as long as it is 6th or higher?

    If the best case scenario with not blowing the team up mid-season, was to get playoff experience and maybe win a series, does any of that really change if we finish 3rd or 6th? Shouldn't we want to develop JV and Ross for the future more than letting John Salmons, Chuck Hayes and Tyler Hansbrough log important minutes? Does winning the division this year significantly matter?

    Now the gap from 3rd to 6th (as of today) is 3 games (with another 3 games separating 6th from 7th). So there is a 6 game window we are taking here. I'm not suggesting we throw games to finish with a lower seed, but I do contend, that the long-term success of this team needs more minutes for JV and Ross and less Salmons & Hayes, even at the expense of a few games down the stretch.

    Yes, making the playoffs is important and not facing either Miami or Indiana is important too, but other than that, I don't care which slot we get and would rather see our young guys on the court than old guys who are very unlikely to be back next year (and certainly not beyond).

    Right now, unless Charlotte can catch on of the 4 teams, the 3-6 slots are going to be Raps, Bulls, Wizards and Nets. I've seen a different poster saying that they'd rather face the Bulls, the Wiz and the Nets. At this point, I don't care, all 4 teams are formidable but with weaknesses. The Raps could just as easily beat or lose to any of the other 3.

    Now the bonus…cue the groans...Draft pick, would you rather have #17 or #20? Playoff teams are slotted based on their regular season record, so the East will likely have the first 6 non-lottery picks (since #8 in the west is better than #3 in the east).

    Since the 4 teams are equal on the court, I am willing to give up home court advantage, take our chances on the road and take the higher draft pick. Don't think the difference between 17 and 20 is that big? Well, look at the recent drafts. #17 has names like Josh Smith, Danny Granger, Roy Hibbert, Jrue Holiday, Iman Shumpert and Dennis Schroeder. #20 has names like Renaldo Balkman, Alexis Ajinca, Eric Maynor, Donatas Motiejunas, Evan Fournier and Tony Snell.

    The ultimate thought behind all of this is I am looking long-term and hope the Raptors are too. Long-term, JV's development is more important to this team's success than anything Chuck Hayes or Tyler Hansbrough can bring to the court this year. Ross's development is more important to this team than anything John Salmons can do. So let the young guys play through the mistakes, accept the growing pains and embrace the fact that as long as you don't give up a 6 game lead to Charlotte, the team can afford to lose a few games and be in a better position as a franchise (more developed young players + better pick) moving forward.

    Call it a stealth tank, call it long-term vision, call it what you will, just make sure you call #17 and #31 off the bench ahead of #25 and #44.
    Heir, Prince of Cambridge

    If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

  • #2
    That sends terrible message to the team. It goes against creating a winning culture.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    @Chr1st1anL

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    • #3
      Ugh.

      Put a team out that can play, and win. If the stiff can't keep up, lots of room on the pine.

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      • #4
        You make a good point. I was actually arguing for the other side elsewhere, but this was pretty persuasive.

        Those guys should get more minutes.

        It's not hurting the winning culture, because we aren't throwing games. We're developing a winning culture in our younger guys by giving them more minutes.

        I think the draft position is kind of an afterthought, but eh, it doesn't hurt.

        Also, I don't think home court is any big advantage in the first round. Maybe it makes a marginal difference, but if it costs us the ability to develop the future of our franchise, it's probably not worth it.

        Finally, we probably are doing that to an extent right now. Given JV's net rating, he should be playing far less than the already few minutes that he gets.
        "Bruno?
        Heh, if he is in the D-league still in a few years I will be surprised.
        He's terrible."

        -Superjudge, 7/23

        Hope you're wrong.

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        • #5
          Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
          That sends terrible message to the team. It goes against creating a winning culture.


          Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
          How? You aren't trying to lose. Your simply supporting the reality of JV+Ross is more important to the team than Salmons+Hayes.
          Heir, Prince of Cambridge

          If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

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          • #6
            But, they aren't, not when they play like shit.

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            • #7
              I understand the point of the OP, but it doesn't take into account the (potential) psychological damage of losing the 3rd seed, while limping into the playoffs.

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              • #8
                stooley wrote: View Post

                Finally, we probably are doing that to an extent right now. Given JV's net rating, he should be playing far less than the already few minutes that he gets.
                Seems that way.... and I don't mind it continuing, BUT, I do truly believe that a lot of the stuff we see, i son the players, not the coaching...JV, and Ross..... its almost 2 full seasons now....enough.... time to step it up and establish that you are a) average stiffs or b) star players getting ready to make a jump.

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                • #9
                  Craig wrote: View Post
                  But, they aren't, not when they play like shit.
                  So if I understand your posts correctly, you are saying that John Salmons, Chuck Hayes and Tyler Hansbrough are more important to the long-term success of this franchise than Jonas Valanciunas and Terrence Ross?
                  Heir, Prince of Cambridge

                  If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Nilanka wrote: View Post
                    I understand the point of the OP, but it doesn't take into account the (potential) psychological damage of losing the 3rd seed, while limping into the playoffs.
                    Most years, I'd say that this is a potential issue, but this year, I'm not so sure. This is a team that seems to relish in the idea of being under-appreciated and under-estimated. Wouldn't the 5th or 6th slot better serve that mentality? Especially since it is the same 3 teams that the Raps would play in the 1st round.
                    Heir, Prince of Cambridge

                    If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
                      That sends terrible message to the team. It goes against creating a winning culture.


                      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
                      Gotta call BS on that one.

                      GS had the most blatant in sesaon tank EVER in 2012.

                      How did that work out of them?

                      A winning culture starts with talent.

                      The reality is for all the griping on JV, he is an average NBA C at 21 years of age.

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                      • #12
                        Axel wrote: View Post
                        Most years, I'd say that this is a potential issue, but this year, I'm not so sure. This is a team that seems to relish in the idea of being under-appreciated and under-estimated. Wouldn't the 5th or 6th slot better serve that mentality? Especially since it is the same 3 teams that the Raps would play in the 1st round.
                        Perhaps....as long as they avoid reading all the media headlines claiming that the division title was ours to lose, and we crashed and burned during the final leg of the season

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                        • #13
                          No more tanking please. I'm not even going to justify the "joy" of drafting 17 instead of 20 with a reply. Straight ridiculous
                          It's Klaw Season. Time to hunt.

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                          • #14
                            Nilanka wrote: View Post
                            Perhaps....as long as they avoid reading all the media headlines claiming that the division title was ours to lose, and we crashed and burned during the final leg of the season
                            More fuel for the fire?
                            Heir, Prince of Cambridge

                            If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              KeonClark wrote: View Post
                              No more tanking please. I'm not even going to justify the "joy" of drafting 17 instead of 20 with a reply. Straight ridiculous
                              Draft is only a bonus, the main point is JV and Ross need to play crunch time minutes to develop and ultimately help this team.
                              Heir, Prince of Cambridge

                              If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

                              Comment

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