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Is the cost of 3rd place too high? A plea for 6th

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  • Fully
    replied
    slaw wrote: View Post
    Don't really agree with this at all. James Johnson has played for 4 teams and his biggest role and opportunity was given to him in Toronto. Bayless has played for 5 teams now and, again, his best years and biggest opportunity were in Toronto. Ditto for Ed Davis who plays 10 minutes less a game in Memphis.

    Ross has improved his contribution significantly over last year and has become a key to the team's success. Valanciuanas hasn't been great but it's mostly been a function of poor shooting vs. last year as opposed to any fundamental issues. Meanwhile, Derozan, Lowry and Amir Johnson have all had career years under Casey.
    You beat me to it. Casey has plenty of faults but stopping James Johnson and Jarred Bayless from spreading their wings is not one of them. Yes, the minutes for those guys were all over the place but so was their play, hence JJ/Bayless being relegated to journeyman status within 5 years of being in the league.

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  • Axel
    replied
    slaw wrote: View Post
    I highly doubt the last 4 or 5 games of the year will be meaningless. They will likely decide the division and the playoff standings 3 through 8....
    If that is the case then why bother waiting until the last 2 weeks? Why not start now to maximize the development time? Hence the OP.

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  • KeonClark
    replied
    Jonas needs to find his smile. (Heartbreak kid!!!)

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  • nubreed000
    replied
    KeonClark wrote: View Post
    This guy gets it.

    Sent from my SGH-I747M using Tapatalk
    Not really. This topic has nothing to do with tanking.

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  • mcHAPPY
    replied
    slaw wrote: View Post
    Don't really agree with this at all. James Johnson has played for 4 teams and his biggest role and opportunity was given to him in Toronto. Bayless has played for 5 teams now and, again, his best years and biggest opportunity were in Toronto. Ditto for Ed Davis who plays 10 minutes less a game in Memphis.

    Ross has improved his contribution significantly over last year and has become a key to the team's success. Valanciuanas hasn't been great but it's mostly been a function of poor shooting vs. last year as opposed to any fundamental issues. Meanwhile, Derozan, Lowry and Amir Johnson have all had career years under Casey.
    The outcomes are now determined and, sure, those players (JJ, Bayless, ED) haven't quite panned out. However when they played for Toronto their minutes were all over the place - especially Davis. But the bigger point was those two teams/years/seasons the Raptors sucked donkey balls. Losing teams only have the future to work with. I feel confident in saying that if Davis had stayed he still would have shown flashes and he'd be entering FA not knowing what the team has.

    Regarding your last sentence, I think it is fairly obvious - again my opinion - that Casey has favourites and guys he feels more comfortable with. That is only normal. However what is unusual is that his preferences seem to be older guys - even if those older guys are still relatively young. And then with Lowry, he was more comfortable with Calderon until, well we know that story.

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  • slaw
    replied
    Axel wrote: View Post
    which misses the point. Garbage games once the standings are set are much like garbage minutes. Games like the last one versus Brooklyn are the most valuable as they are the crunch time, pressure cooker moments that best reflect the playoffs.
    I highly doubt the last 4 or 5 games of the year will be meaningless. They will likely decide the division and the playoff standings 3 through 8....

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  • slaw
    replied
    OldSkoolCool wrote: View Post
    J. Johnson
    Bayless
    Davis
    Ross
    Val

    (ie: every young guy we have had in the past 3 years....)

    I very much doubt that all those guys have the same problems and have trouble getting confident when they have all been miss-treated with sporadic playing times and random benching's, I think that the issue lies in Casey's inability to properly use young guys and his infatuation with vets.
    Don't really agree with this at all. James Johnson has played for 4 teams and his biggest role and opportunity was given to him in Toronto. Bayless has played for 5 teams now and, again, his best years and biggest opportunity were in Toronto. Ditto for Ed Davis who plays 10 minutes less a game in Memphis.

    Ross has improved his contribution significantly over last year and has become a key to the team's success. Valanciuanas hasn't been great but it's mostly been a function of poor shooting vs. last year as opposed to any fundamental issues. Meanwhile, Derozan, Lowry and Amir Johnson have all had career years under Casey.

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  • Axel
    replied
    vino wrote: View Post
    Good point, let’s re-visit in a few weeks when there are 4-5 games left.
    which misses the point. Garbage games once the standings are set are much like garbage minutes. Games like the last one versus Brooklyn are the most valuable as they are the crunch time, pressure cooker moments that best reflect the playoffs.

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  • vino
    replied

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  • OldSkoolCool
    replied
    special1 wrote: View Post
    WOW .... after reading all these posts i can't help but think that half the fans on here think they know more about development than the people who are actually paid to do it.

    Guys....If JV is as fragile as half of you make him out to be, then i promise you he will not turn out to be anything special in this league. Page after page i read how "his confidence is low.....poor guy." This is the NBA!....it's not kindergarten. One night JV is going up against Pekovic, the next night its Gasol, then Howard, then Hibbert, then Noah, then Vujicic, then Chandler, then Jefferson, then Jordan......you see the Center position is a man's position.

    You should all temper your expectations with regards to JV. I think he gets playing time according to his play (which is how it should be). He's a major part of this team (started every game as a Raptor from since i can remember). Does he have a ways to go?? YES!....he's a 21 year old sophmore center going up against the biggest, toughest players in the NBA. I don't see this travesty that others see.....then again i don't have a bias for JV. To me, JV is just one of the many important players on this team.
    isaacthompson wrote: View Post
    Just another testament to the obvious: Casey is horrible when it comes to player development. JV plays tentatively because he knows if he makes a mistake, he'll get taken out. He's regularly the first starter taken out of the game.



    He's fragile because of DC. Your confidence would be low too if your minutes were cut regardless of whether your playing well or not.
    special1 please read isaacthompson's post

    I don't think I would be as biased and firm on my opinion of how Casey is improperly handling Jonas IF it was just Jonas that is having troubles.

    However, Casey has miss handled the development of:

    J. Johnson
    Bayless
    Davis
    Ross
    Val

    (ie: every young guy we have had in the past 3 years....)

    I very much doubt that all those guys have the same problems and have trouble getting confident when they have all been miss-treated with sporadic playing times and random benching's, I think that the issue lies in Casey's inability to properly use young guys and his infatuation with vets.

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  • isaacthompson
    replied
    Scraptor wrote: View Post
    In order to learn from mistakes you have to understand that they are not the end of the world. You have to dust yourself off and try again. What I see from Val when he makes mistakes is serious dejection and embarrassment. This is not good. It leads to tentative play and a slowing down/overthinking for fear of making mistakes instead of playing by instinct.
    Just another testament to the obvious: Casey is horrible when it comes to player development. JV plays tentatively because he knows if he makes a mistake, he'll get taken out. He's regularly the first starter taken out of the game.

    special1 wrote: View Post
    Guys....If JV is as fragile as half of you make him out to be, then i promise you he will not turn out to be anything special in this league. Page after page i read how "his confidence is low.....poor guy." This is the NBA!....it's not kindergarten. One night JV is going up against Pekovic, the next night its Gasol, then Howard, then Hibbert, then Noah, then Vujicic, then Chandler, then Jefferson, then Jordan......you see the Center position is a man's position.
    He's fragile because of DC. Your confidence would be low too if your minutes were cut regardless of whether your playing well or not.

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  • special1
    replied
    BobLoblaw wrote: View Post
    That makes no sense. I agree with most of that post though.
    Maybe your right....I'll remove it as i don't think that part matters. It was a just a thought that didn't need to be included in my post.

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  • BigCamB
    replied
    OldSkoolCool wrote: View Post
    Yes, I should have included this in my post. It is annoying to see Ross play hard and do 10 things extremely well, and 1 thing wrong only to get subbed out, then see Salmons do nothing but mediocrity and a couple things wrong and Casey rides him like a porn star.



    Well said. This could also help explain why we see him do well only when he starts well, and doesn't get that dejection from heading to the bench early and has some temporary confidence....which is later squashed in the second because his teammates don't get him a single shot in the second quarter
    It doesn't help that he sometimes spends up to the first ten minutes of the second quarter on the bench, either......

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  • BobLoblaw
    replied
    edit - not needed anymore
    Last edited by BobLoblaw; Wed Mar 12, 2014, 01:45 PM.

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  • wallz
    replied
    Is the cost of 3rd place too high? A plea for 6th

    Not to mention the coach has managed to coach this team into relevancy all while giving jv enough minutes to get experience under his belt. Not bad at all if you ask me


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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