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Team before all - deep heaves

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  • Team before all - deep heaves

    I recall last summer a conversation on this topic. There were a number of posters here who felt the half court heaves were meaningless and players were right not to let it fly. In this OKC article they take a quote from Casey:



    And every now and then a buzzer beater matters:


    Anyone ever notice DD often waits until after the buzzer?

    Anyone ever notice Lowry does not?

  • #2
    haha, I remember this debate. Some felt that since the stars like Durant do it, that it's ok for Demar and Co. to do it as well.

    I think in the end, we agreed that it's likely a generational thing and us old dudes simply cannot fathom the logic.

    I don't buy the stats thing as being a real concern. If we (the fans) can track ridiculously detailed stats (like how many drives to the hoop that started from 20 feet or further out a player has per game), then I'm quite sure the men paid to evaluate players can quite easily track how many "buzzer heaves" a player took in a season and adjust the stats accordingly.
    Heir, Prince of Cambridge

    If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

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    • #3
      I'm on the fence on this issue.

      From a team perspective, you want half-court heaves. Even a slight chance of making the shot is better than none.

      But from a player's perspective, there are still some front offices who may not have fully embraced the analytics movement yet, and therefore would simply look at a player's FG% when making personnel decisions.

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      • #4
        I've noticed specifically that lowry never gets it up in time. He never seems like he's in a hurry. I don't know if he is thinking about his average or just has no timing but he's always throwing something up after the clock is already done.

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        • #5
          Nilanka wrote: View Post
          I'm on the fence on this issue.

          From a team perspective, you want half-court heaves. Even a slight chance of making the shot is better than none.

          But from a player's perspective, there are still some front offices who may not have fully embraced the analytics movement yet, and therefore would simply look at a player's FG% when making personnel decisions.
          If a player is very concerned about though, then they could easily get their agent to do the analytic work and present it at negotiations.
          Heir, Prince of Cambridge

          If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

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          • #6
            jacobdr4 wrote: View Post
            I've noticed specifically that lowry never gets it up in time. He never seems like he's in a hurry. I don't know if he is thinking about his average or just has no timing but he's always throwing something up after the clock is already done.
            Hmmmm

            I could be wrong then.

            I always thought he got them off.

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            • #7
              Matt52 wrote: View Post
              Hmmmm

              I could be wrong then.

              I always thought he got them off.
              For the most part he does, but DeMar syndrome sometimes gets the best of him.
              Twitter - @thekid_it

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              • #8
                One thing I hate about Derozan is he never does the half court heave at the end of quarters, he waits to hear the horn go off and then he heaves it, he's too fucking worried about his FG%, it pisses me off so much.

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                • #9
                  I read an article a few years ago about how the Rockets actually tracked these kinds of shots and re-calculated a player's percentages. If a front office is so stupid it's basing it's evaluation of a player without doing advanced due diligence to account for variable like this then that's a front office that doesn't have a clue what it is doing....

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                  • #10
                    we wouldn't have won that game in brooklyn if lowry didn't heave it at half time for the 3 extra points.

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                    • #11
                      iblastoff wrote: View Post
                      we wouldn't have won that game in brooklyn if lowry didn't heave it at half time for the 3 extra points.
                      Well in fairness to the non-heavers, basketball, and life in general, doesn't actually turn out that way. 3 points at one point of the game is actually different from 3 points at another point. A missed layup in the 2nd quarter doesn't mean you would've won the game you lost by 1-point.

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                      • #12
                        Letter N wrote: View Post
                        Well in fairness to the non-heavers, basketball, and life in general, doesn't actually turn out that way. 3 points at one point of the game is actually different from 3 points at another point. A missed layup in the 2nd quarter doesn't mean you would've won the game you lost by 1-point.
                        oh totally. i was just speaking of the score. if we didnt have that extra 3 points we would have still lost by 1 even with the ppat steal and bucket at the end. i'm sure a lot of other tangibles/intangibles would have been altered/different plays executed etc etc if that hadn't have happened of course. either way, he did heave it before the buzzer.
                        Last edited by iblastoff; Mon Mar 24, 2014, 10:23 AM.

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                        • #13
                          The Raps have taken 10 heaves past half court and made 2.

                          3 attempts each by Lowry and Ross, 2 by Vasquez and 1 each by DD and Hayes. Lowry and Ross have the makes.
                          If we knew half as much about coaching an NBA team as we think, we"d know twice as much as we do.

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                          • #14
                            I find it funny that guys would be concerned about their stats by taking shots like that.. where was your head when you decided to take a 19 foot 2 point shot with more than 15 seconds left in the shot clock?

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                            • #15
                              3inthekeon wrote: View Post
                              The Raps have taken 10 heaves past half court and made 2.

                              3 attempts each by Lowry and Ross, 2 by Vasquez and 1 each by DD and Hayes. Lowry and Ross have the makes.
                              are they all heaves attempted before the clock ran out?

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