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  • #16
    Meh. I'm not nearly as concerned about seeding as I am about another thing, which has bugged me for pretty much the whole season (or at least since the team started playing well enough to be in the playoff picture).

    We run primarily a jumpshooting offence with little variety, where adjustments are rarely made to change things up when it's not working. That is not exactly a recipe for success in the playoffs. I don't think any series would be easy for Toronto to win, in no small part because of this.

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    • #17
      slaw wrote: View Post
      I see the current iteration as different in a few ways from the '06-'07 team:

      1. Better defensive team. The '06 and '07 teams outscored you but they couldn't defend very well. Theoretically, being a better defensive team is more sustainable.

      2. Age. Every single key player on this team is either not in his prime, just entering it or early in it. That bodes well. The '06-'07 teams did not have that kind of combination of depth/age.

      3. Cap and drafts. The 06-07 team had no simple way to improve. Ujiri has picks, moveable assets and cap space. Up to him to ensure it makes a difference.

      The key question is not whether this is a repeat of 2006-2010 but how far can this current core go without a Durant or someone like him. Can they be an ECF contender or just playoff fodder?
      And that's why they need to avoid going "all-in" with this group, and absolutely need to maintain as much flexibility as possible over the next couple of summers.

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      • #18
        white men can't jump wrote: View Post
        And that's why they need to avoid going "all-in" with this group, and absolutely need to maintain as much flexibility as possible over the next couple of summers.
        They have, I believe, all of their picks for the next couple years. Finding a rotation guy or two in that mix will be important, so they don't need to spend premium free agent dollars on bench guys (e.g. Fields, Kapono, Kleiza, etc.). There is so much dead capspace on this team right now. Just replacing those guys with cheaper alternatives will be a huge boon for management.

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        • #19
          slaw wrote: View Post
          I see the current iteration as different in a few ways from the '06-'07 team:

          1. Better defensive team. The '06 and '07 teams outscored you but they couldn't defend very well. Theoretically, being a better defensive team is more sustainable.

          2. Age. Every single key player on this team is either not in his prime, just entering it or early in it. That bodes well. The '06-'07 teams did not have that kind of combination of depth/age.

          3. Cap and drafts. The 06-07 team had no simple way to improve. Ujiri has picks, moveable assets and cap space. Up to him to ensure it makes a difference.

          The key question is not whether this is a repeat of 2006-2010 but how far can this current core go without a Durant or someone like him. Can they be an ECF contender or just playoff fodder?
          1.) Not true, the 2006-07 team wasn't as good defensively as this one, but they were above average defensively (ranked 12th in dEFF).
          2.) True
          3.) We actually didn't have a problem with not having picks/cap space until BC started wasting them, hopefully Ujiri doesn't do that.

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          • #20
            white men can't jump wrote: View Post
            Meh. I'm not nearly as concerned about seeding as I am about another thing, which has bugged me for pretty much the whole season (or at least since the team started playing well enough to be in the playoff picture).

            We run primarily a jumpshooting offence with little variety, where adjustments are rarely made to change things up when it's not working. That is not exactly a recipe for success in the playoffs. I don't think any series would be easy for Toronto to win, in no small part because of this.
            YES! This has been worrying me for a while. As they say you live by the jumper you die by the jumper. I'm hoping our good ball movement helps us but we definitely rely WAY too heavily on the jumpshot to have any chance of doing well in the playoffs. Unless we play Washington. But that looks like it won't be happening anymore.
            I relish negativity and disappointment. It is not healthy. Somebody buy me a pony.

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            • #21
              GLF wrote: View Post
              YES! This has been worrying me for a while. As they say you live by the jumper you die by the jumper. I'm hoping our good ball movement helps us but we definitely rely WAY too heavily on the jumpshot to have any chance of doing well in the playoffs. Unless we play Washington. But that looks like it won't be happening anymore.
              Not only do we shoot a lot of jumpers, but the ball doesn't swing that much either. Our ball movement is not actually that spectacular. It's pretty average. And the ball rarely goes through more than 2-3 players on any set. It's still better than in the Gay times, or better than most of Casey's first 2 years here, but it's a long way away from better teams like SAS, POR, GSW, or even the offensively challenged (talent-wise) Bulls. The 2nd or 3rd passes are rarely made.

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              • #22
                white men can't jump wrote: View Post
                Not only do we shoot a lot of jumpers, but the ball doesn't swing that much either. Our ball movement is not actually that spectacular. It's pretty average. And the ball rarely goes through more than 2-3 players on any set. It's still better than in the Gay times, or better than most of Casey's first 2 years here, but it's a long way away from better teams like SAS, POR, GSW, or even the offensively challenged (talent-wise) Bulls. The 2nd or 3rd passes are rarely made.
                I feel our passing is average at best

                Not as good as SAS,GSW, POR

                But better then the BULLS,CAVS etc
                "Both teams played hard my man" - Sheed

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                • #23
                  I feel confident for the playoffs because of the simple fact that the Raptors seem to always play better against good teams and take the bad teams lightly. Recently we've had wins/close losses vs the Thunder, Grizzlies and Suns where it was close throughout and it's against the Hawks x2 and the Cavs where they've been awful.

                  Once it gets to the playoffs I think you'll see a much better effort from the Raptors for the full 48 minutes.

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                  • #24
                    MACK11 wrote: View Post
                    I feel our passing is average at best

                    Not as good as SAS,GSW, POR

                    But better then the BULLS,CAVS etc
                    NAW Bulls are way better than us at moving the ball. That's one of the reasons why their offense has been so much better as of late. At least from the eye test. Stats might say something different. But you both are right. We are average at best when it comes to ball movement. That is why we have so many offensive droughts during a game. And most of the time it's us doing it to ourselves it's nothing the defense is causing.
                    I relish negativity and disappointment. It is not healthy. Somebody buy me a pony.

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                    • #25
                      Raptorsnz wrote: View Post
                      I feel confident for the playoffs because of the simple fact that the Raptors seem to always play better against good teams and take the bad teams lightly. Recently we've had wins/close losses vs the Thunder, Grizzlies and Suns where it was close throughout and it's against the Hawks x2 and the Cavs where they've been awful.

                      Once it gets to the playoffs I think you'll see a much better effort from the Raptors for the full 48 minutes.
                      Well you better be right. The only thing is we are playing a lot of crappy teams to end the season and when something becomes a habit it's hard to break it. So if coming down to end the season we play every crappy teams lightly it can very easily follow us into the playoffs because now it has become habit. We will see.
                      I relish negativity and disappointment. It is not healthy. Somebody buy me a pony.

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                      • #26
                        Speaking of history repeating itself...

                        Anyone else see some similarities between Jorge "sweet-shooting, PF, Glue-Guy" Garbajosa going down and that teams subsequent struggles with 2pat and our current struggles?

                        Makes you appreciate how important a true 6th man can be.

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                        • #27
                          themasao wrote: View Post
                          Speaking of history repeating itself...

                          Anyone else see some similarities between Jorge "sweet-shooting, PF, Glue-Guy" Garbajosa going down and that teams subsequent struggles with 2pat and our current struggles?

                          Makes you appreciate how important a true 6th man can be.
                          In some ways, except Garbo played a lot at SF.

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                          • #28
                            I'm not worried because I expected them to be average once MU got fooled and fell for whatever he hell for and abandoned the tank.

                            Not bringing up the old argument, no point, but once Toronto opted out of the tank, it was full on hoping they could compete and win.... having watched them lose almost EVERY so called "must win" game since, I think its safe to say they are basically the same as most of the lower third teams....just without the tank in place.

                            I said it weeks ago, Brooklyn would catch them, and I stand by that fully. Toronto isn't good, the are just average, and will not get a good draft pick, but will also not have anything close to success in the playoffs.

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                            • #29
                              I will always be worried until we can get another star player such as this who could take us into the promise land

                              "Both teams played hard my man" - Sheed

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                              • #30
                                slaw wrote: View Post
                                I see the current iteration as different in a few ways from the '06-'07 team:

                                1. Better defensive team. The '06 and '07 teams outscored you but they couldn't defend very well. Theoretically, being a better defensive team is more sustainable.

                                2. Age. Every single key player on this team is either not in his prime, just entering it or early in it. That bodes well. The '06-'07 teams did not have that kind of combination of depth/age.

                                3. Cap and drafts. The 06-07 team had no simple way to improve. Ujiri has picks, moveable assets and cap space. Up to him to ensure it makes a difference.

                                The key question is not whether this is a repeat of 2006-2010 but how far can this current core go without a Durant or someone like him. Can they be an ECF contender or just playoff fodder?
                                The bold is the question - isn't it?

                                Personally, I think playoff fodder but I've been wrong on this whole season, maybe I'm wrong again.

                                I really am hoping the Raptors go beyond the first round but if they do not, I see a lot of positives for Ujiri to work with. First, a 1st round bounce will give Ujiri the ammo he needs to justify to a fan base about big changes. Secondly, tied in to the first, is Amir, DD, and Lowry have never had higher trade value. Due to future cap space concerns I don't see the Raptors capable of keeping all of the current core and being a player in free agency in 2015 or 2016. Finally, financial flexibility is there to take on bad contracts for the benefit of assets (prospects/rookie deals or future picks). I see 2014-15 another year of asset accumulation (this past year has brought 3 draft picks, 2 solid role players (Vasquez, PP), prospect (De Colo), and value contract (Hansbrough)). Take on a bad contract that expires after 2014-15 is not going to hurt the team because they are not set up to be free agent players for another year/until 2015 anyways.


                                As for the original thread and about being concerned with 2006-2007 - no, I'm not in the slightest:
                                - younger team,
                                - more financial flexibility,
                                - more assets,
                                - a GM with a history of capitalizing on opportunity and showing patience,
                                - an ownership group not run by a pension plan (i.e. willing to spend and not just looking for cash cows),
                                - a CEO who talks a great game but has also delivered since in Toronto (TFC and Masai) and in his LA past (Beckham),
                                - I think there will be a new coach as I just can't see a GM who wants to build through the draft comfortable with a coach who wants to roll with vets.
                                - finally and maybe most importantly, MU was here on the last go around with a semi-competitive team. I don't believe he wants the 2006-2007 Raps to repeat as strongly as us fans.

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