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  • sam_paul77
    replied
    agree

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  • Kuh
    replied
    BobLoblaw wrote: View Post
    He is a top 20 player right now. Top 20, that's basically an all star. Easily.
    He won't get a max because of his history though.
    For what it's worth, boxscoregeeks.com has Kyle sitting as the 17th best player in the league today. He could slip, but top 25 looks pretty safe.

    He is statistically tied with Dragic as the second best PG behind Chris Paul

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  • planetmars
    replied
    3inthekeon wrote: View Post
    But it's not fans, media or the league that makes contract offers. We'll soon find out what (at least some) front offices think of Lowry this offseason.
    The front offices do of course but I think they can easily get influenced by the fans/media and the league. I don't think Lowry gets the recognition he deserves but basically I'm really just hoping that his under dog status in the league translates to a good contract offer as well.

    If Lowry was over rated I'd be concerned (*cough* Gay *cough*), but he's not.. and I think that actually will help here.

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  • 3inthekeon
    replied
    planetmars wrote: View Post
    I was referring more to his perception by fans, media and the league.. and it's hard to just consider this year when considering contracts especially when so many big named talented players were injured like Horford, Rose, Kobe, Rondo, Westbrook, Lopez this year.

    When ESPN does it's top 500 list next year.. let's see if Lowry makes the top 20. I know that voting system is dumb, but it's a good barometer of what the general population think about NBA players.
    But it's not fans, media or the league that makes contract offers. We'll soon find out what (at least some) front offices think of Lowry this offseason.

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  • BobLoblaw
    replied
    planetmars wrote: View Post
    I was referring more to his perception by fans, media and the league.. and it's hard to just consider this year when considering contracts especially when so many big named talented players were injured like Horford, Rose, Kobe, Rondo, Westbrook, Lopez this year.

    When ESPN does it's top 500 list next year.. let's see if Lowry makes the top 20. I know that voting system is dumb, but it's a good barometer of what the general population think about NBA players.
    Well, you said "anyone", so I'm one.

    But if you mean general public opinion, then you are probably right. Media kept voting Kobe all-defense for like 3 years after he stopped being solid on defense, it takes a while for the general media to catch up.

    As far as injuries, every year has multiple injured big name players. Some will get healthy, others will get injured, some will break out, others will fade away. In the end, it's up to Lowry himself to stay healthy and keep playing well. Lowry is a legit top 20 player right now. It's up to him to keep that form or lose it.

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  • planetmars
    replied
    BobLoblaw wrote: View Post
    He is a top 20 player right now. Top 20, that's basically an all star. Easily.
    He won't get a max because of his history though.
    I was referring more to his perception by fans, media and the league.. and it's hard to just consider this year when considering contracts especially when so many big named talented players were injured like Horford, Rose, Kobe, Rondo, Westbrook, Lopez this year.

    When ESPN does it's top 500 list next year.. let's see if Lowry makes the top 20. I know that voting system is dumb, but it's a good barometer of what the general population think about NBA players.

    Leave a comment:


  • BobLoblaw
    replied
    planetmars wrote: View Post
    The 2006-2007 team comes up often as a shining example of what could happen. The reason that bombed was the short term moves that Bryan made. He tried to create a team around Bosh and paid for it.

    There is no one guy that we need to build around with this current roster. There is no 'superstar'. Lowry might be the closest but I don't think anyone would consider Lowry a top 20 player in the league despite the success he's had this season. And Lowry is not a 'max' guy - not even close.

    They have the flexibility to get a max guy and the thing I like about MU over BC is that MU is trying to build a team.. a group of cohesive parts. BC drafted Bargnani when they had Bosh. He got Jermaine O'Neal when Bargnani wasn't enough. He signed Hedo when they already had a dominant ball handler in Jose. He traded for Gay when he already had a guy who was similar in DeMar (who he just resigned to a 4 year contract).

    The only similarity might be a first round bounce.. but what were the expectations going into this season? I never considered a 3rd seed. I was thinking border line 8th seed and hoping for a tank since being in 7-11 sucks. Now that they are destined for the playoffs with a seed at least somewhere between 3-5 all we can hope for is some success and development (hoping the playoff atmosphere helps nurture some of the youth on the team).

    I personally don't think the Raptors will get passed the first round, but I never considered them a playoff team after the Gay trade went down so my expectations are jaded. And if they don't I still think the Raptors are far better off than they were at the start of the 2007-2008 season.
    He is a top 20 player right now. Top 20, that's basically an all star. Easily.
    He won't get a max because of his history though.

    Leave a comment:


  • BigCamB
    replied
    white men can't jump wrote: View Post
    Not only do we shoot a lot of jumpers, but the ball doesn't swing that much either. Our ball movement is not actually that spectacular. It's pretty average. And the ball rarely goes through more than 2-3 players on any set. It's still better than in the Gay times, or better than most of Casey's first 2 years here, but it's a long way away from better teams like SAS, POR, GSW, or even the offensively challenged (talent-wise) Bulls. The 2nd or 3rd passes are rarely made.
    GSW's offense is pretty damn average and broken at times, considering the talent they have.
    Their defense is formidable though.

    Leave a comment:


  • Uncle_Si
    replied
    themasao wrote: View Post
    Is that a good thing though? The best contracts in the leagues are usually max's and mins. Mid level contracts are worst value per dollar in the league. See: Fields, Novak, Hayes.
    That's a terrible point. So Rudy Gays 20million dollar contract next year is better than DeMar derozans 9.5? Kobe Bryant's 30million is better than what? He's a first ballot hall of famer but at this point dudes not worth 30 effin million. Novak is at what 3.5million? It's not ideal but it's not crippling. Sure fields is a disaster of a contract. Hayes contract is tough to swallow until u look at the discounts you get on Ppat and gravy (for now) Hayes is way too much but he's serviceable and brings good leadership so on a young team like this you can afford it for another year or 2.

    In closing, I disagree with your premise.

    Leave a comment:


  • themasao
    replied
    MACK11 wrote: View Post
    current playoff teams

    east: indy, mia, chi, tor, bk, was, cha, atl
    west: sas, okc, lac, hou, por, gsw, mem, dal

    of all those teams, we are the only team w/o a player making at least $10 mil.
    Is that a good thing though? The best contracts in the leagues are usually max's and mins. Mid level contracts are worst value per dollar in the league. See: Fields, Novak, Hayes.

    Leave a comment:


  • mountio
    replied
    MACK11 wrote: View Post
    current playoff teams

    east: indy, mia, chi, tor, bk, was, cha, atl
    west: sas, okc, lac, hou, por, gsw, mem, dal

    of all those teams, we are the only team w/o a player making at least $10 mil.
    thats actually interesting. I havent convinced myself of how relevant (we certainly have some stinkers making $6-8 mm in the form of LF, JS, CH) .... but it is an interesting point none the less for cap flexibility going forward.

    Leave a comment:


  • Raps76
    replied
    Mayday Mayday Raps falling fast. 2-4 in their last 6 and heading into a potential 5th seed nosedive!!

    3rd Seed: I think at this point we'll have to go 9-3 to secure it, the Bulls have been playing at a high level and I can easily see them going 8-3 over their last 11, I mean their toughest challenge is arguably Portland so that say's it all. I really don't see them going 7-4 over their last 11 games with the opposing level of competition but we can always hope.

    4th Seed: IMO 8-4 should secure the 4th seed unless the Nets keep streaking hard but it's hard to see them going 11-2 over their final 13. 7-5 from here on out could be a potential kiss of death (Losses to Mia, Ind, Hou, Nyk[H2H], and a stinker to either Bos[H2H], Orl, or Det) but again even 10-3 is a difficult finish to imagine from the Nets in their last 13. I'm guessing they go 9-4 which should seal the deal for us unless we really fumble and go 6-6.

    Bottom line is the Raps need to get their act together, a realistic expectation given their poor play lately is securing the 4th seed by going 7-5. It'd be nice if they could get themselves together but right now it looks like a limp into the playoffs and a first round exit to Brooklyn.

    Leave a comment:


  • MACK11
    replied
    current playoff teams

    east: indy, mia, chi, tor, bk, was, cha, atl
    west: sas, okc, lac, hou, por, gsw, mem, dal

    of all those teams, we are the only team w/o a player making at least $10 mil.

    Leave a comment:


  • planetmars
    replied
    The 2006-2007 team comes up often as a shining example of what could happen. The reason that bombed was the short term moves that Bryan made. He tried to create a team around Bosh and paid for it.

    There is no one guy that we need to build around with this current roster. There is no 'superstar'. Lowry might be the closest but I don't think anyone would consider Lowry a top 20 player in the league despite the success he's had this season. And Lowry is not a 'max' guy - not even close.

    They have the flexibility to get a max guy and the thing I like about MU over BC is that MU is trying to build a team.. a group of cohesive parts. BC drafted Bargnani when they had Bosh. He got Jermaine O'Neal when Bargnani wasn't enough. He signed Hedo when they already had a dominant ball handler in Jose. He traded for Gay when he already had a guy who was similar in DeMar (who he just resigned to a 4 year contract).

    The only similarity might be a first round bounce.. but what were the expectations going into this season? I never considered a 3rd seed. I was thinking border line 8th seed and hoping for a tank since being in 7-11 sucks. Now that they are destined for the playoffs with a seed at least somewhere between 3-5 all we can hope for is some success and development (hoping the playoff atmosphere helps nurture some of the youth on the team).

    I personally don't think the Raptors will get passed the first round, but I never considered them a playoff team after the Gay trade went down so my expectations are jaded. And if they don't I still think the Raptors are far better off than they were at the start of the 2007-2008 season.

    Leave a comment:


  • mcHAPPY
    replied
    slaw wrote: View Post
    I see the current iteration as different in a few ways from the '06-'07 team:

    1. Better defensive team. The '06 and '07 teams outscored you but they couldn't defend very well. Theoretically, being a better defensive team is more sustainable.

    2. Age. Every single key player on this team is either not in his prime, just entering it or early in it. That bodes well. The '06-'07 teams did not have that kind of combination of depth/age.

    3. Cap and drafts. The 06-07 team had no simple way to improve. Ujiri has picks, moveable assets and cap space. Up to him to ensure it makes a difference.

    The key question is not whether this is a repeat of 2006-2010 but how far can this current core go without a Durant or someone like him. Can they be an ECF contender or just playoff fodder?
    The bold is the question - isn't it?

    Personally, I think playoff fodder but I've been wrong on this whole season, maybe I'm wrong again.

    I really am hoping the Raptors go beyond the first round but if they do not, I see a lot of positives for Ujiri to work with. First, a 1st round bounce will give Ujiri the ammo he needs to justify to a fan base about big changes. Secondly, tied in to the first, is Amir, DD, and Lowry have never had higher trade value. Due to future cap space concerns I don't see the Raptors capable of keeping all of the current core and being a player in free agency in 2015 or 2016. Finally, financial flexibility is there to take on bad contracts for the benefit of assets (prospects/rookie deals or future picks). I see 2014-15 another year of asset accumulation (this past year has brought 3 draft picks, 2 solid role players (Vasquez, PP), prospect (De Colo), and value contract (Hansbrough)). Take on a bad contract that expires after 2014-15 is not going to hurt the team because they are not set up to be free agent players for another year/until 2015 anyways.


    As for the original thread and about being concerned with 2006-2007 - no, I'm not in the slightest:
    - younger team,
    - more financial flexibility,
    - more assets,
    - a GM with a history of capitalizing on opportunity and showing patience,
    - an ownership group not run by a pension plan (i.e. willing to spend and not just looking for cash cows),
    - a CEO who talks a great game but has also delivered since in Toronto (TFC and Masai) and in his LA past (Beckham),
    - I think there will be a new coach as I just can't see a GM who wants to build through the draft comfortable with a coach who wants to roll with vets.
    - finally and maybe most importantly, MU was here on the last go around with a semi-competitive team. I don't believe he wants the 2006-2007 Raps to repeat as strongly as us fans.

    Leave a comment:

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