Duane Casey's coaching ability..

[OldSkoolCool]

I just wanna pipe in here. I completely understand how last night's game could drive someone crazy. I really love seeing the young guns show their stuff.

But Casey's gotten this team to play pretty well. I think we should really make an effort and try and understand why he may have made those moves. I'm sure Casey does have a veteran bias (obviously), but there must be more behind those subs.

I'm going to say that it is Lowry who has gotten this team to play, not Casey. Lowry is the leader. Casey is taking too much credit for what the players are doing.

With respect to the bold and the idea of culture change, I'm going to repeat something I wrote in this thread that was never answered:

Do we know why we regressed so badly on defence last year?

And if that kind of regression was possible, doesn't that suggest that whatever 'culture change' we might be seeing could have nothing to do with Casey at all?

Due to the players he was given. He didn't really have an effect and gave lots of minutes to Jose, and kept Lowry on the bench. Again, Casey taking the blame/credit for what the players were doing.

[JimiCliff]

I agree. That comes from a more distant perspective though. A lot of fans and media members around the league are really high on Casey right now. A lot of people very familiar with the Pacers are unhappy with Vogel right now. I'm not sure those guys are doing anything Casey couldn't with their teams.

Right, neither am I.

If I could have my choice of any coach in the league right now, I'd pick Carlisle, given his track record and his age.

[stooley]

I like Vogel a lot.

Brad Stevens has shown very good potential so far. So has Steve Clifford.

I agree. That comes from a more distant perspective though. A lot of fans and media members around the league are really high on Casey right now. A lot of people very familiar with the Pacers are unhappy with Vogel right now. I'm not sure those guys are doing anything Casey couldn't with their teams.

those four guys are x10000 the coach Dwane Casey is

Well that's an overstatement. Karl's had some issues, so has Hollins. I definitely like SVG but JVG hasn't coached in a looong time.

My point was that they're better than most coaches in the league, and I'm sure a lot of teams have floated them offers and been turned down. What we have is pretty good, so unless were getting a surefire thing, I wouldn't replace Casey.

[JimiCliff]

Casey has done everything he was brought in to do. Change the culture and improve the defence. He also did a great job developing young players. Take your pick Amir, DD, Ross and JV. All having career years. No coach is perfect. I don't think Casey is a finished product either. To me if he wins a series his the best coach in Raptor history. He has now 100 win as raptor coach. Only 3 other coaches have done that with the raptors Mitchell and Wilkins. This team is the fastest team to clinch a playoffs berth. Teams second ever Atlantic division title. I except this team to make it to the second round and if they do Masai going to have a hard time not re-upping on Casey.


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With respect to the bold and the idea of culture change, I'm going to repeat something I wrote in this thread that was never answered:

Do we know why we regressed so badly on defence last year?

And if that kind of regression was possible, doesn't that suggest that whatever 'culture change' we might be seeing could have nothing to do with Casey at all?

[MACK11]

But every team in the league could say the same thing. those guys aren't taking jobs for a reason.

those four guys are x10000 the coach Dwane Casey is

[JimiCliff]

I like Vogel a lot.

Brad Stevens has shown very good potential so far. So has Steve Clifford.

[stooley]

Also the unemployed ones such as

Stan Van Gundy
Jeff Van Gundy
Lionel Hollins
George Karl

But every team in the league could say the same thing. those guys aren't taking jobs for a reason.

[stooley]

Hornecek
Budenholzer
Rick Carlisle

How could I forget Rick Carlisle... he's amazing

but Hornacek is unproven and has kind of caught lightning in a bottle like Casey has. I'm not sold that bringing him onto the team would necessarily help that much.

I don't really know Budenholzer that well, so no comment.

[MACK11]

Hornecek
Budenholzer
Rick Carlisle

Also the unemployed ones such as

Stan Van Gundy
Jeff Van Gundy
Lionel Hollins
George Karl

[MACK11]

Let's put it this way, the coaches in the NBA right now that I would take over Casey:

Pops
Thibs
Doc

These are probably the only guys, who, if brought onto the team next year, would really improve the team.

Hornecek
Budenholzer
Rick Carlisle

[stooley]

Let's put it this way, the coaches in the NBA right now that I would take over Casey:

Pops
Thibs
Doc

These are probably the only guys, who, if brought onto the team next year, would really improve the team.

[Pill]

He is incompetent at best.

[wallz]

Then we have people on here saying
"But look Casey has coached us to 41-31, we are a top10 defense, everyone is having career high's under Casey"

Those were probably the same chumps who loved BC until he was finally let go LOOOL They just love to ignore the overwhelming bad this guy does on a nightly basis

Are we ignoring the overwhelming bad or are you ignoring the overwhelming good? Last I checked, this team has no business being in 3rd place with this roster. There is no possible way that a team that overachieves this much has nothing to do with the coach. Just add a little perspective man, I'm not saying you're wrong, but you are ignoring the certain aspects. There are always positives and negatives with a coach, and there will always be different opinions


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[JimiCliff]

but there are times when that can hurt a team, such as with injured or old players.

i would argue that mental health, or state, is also a reasonable reason to pull a player. i think the reason we only hear of or measure the physical side is because there isn't really a reliable way to quantify the mental side of basketball

the difference between coaches on this matter is where to draw the line, not whether or not to have that line.

LOL well, we know for certain that that isn't a problem with Casey

i would argue that mental health, or state, is also a reasonable reason to pull a player.

I agree. However, you're talking about something very situation specific. In these rare instances, sure, you'll need to make adjustments.

They study I mentioned above, though, was talking about the long-haul. 'Bad' coaches, over time, tend play their best players less. Bad coaches are worse at finding the optimal rotation. I would argue that this year we've regularly seen minutes taken away from better players (Ross, Val, Psycho TDot, sometimes even Fields) and given to weaker players (Salmons, Hayes, Vasquez, Novak).

[MACK11]

One of the few problems with our record (and it also happened in 06-07) is that it ends up being a de facto shield against criticism. I want to post some excerpts from a Wolves blogger who was interviewed by a Sixers blogger when the Sixers were considering Casey for head coach. See if anything sounds familiar:



http://sixers4guidos.wordpress.com/2...e-casey-sucks/

Now, Casey did some good things there, like get the team to play top 10 defense, but ultimately we're seeing the same problems repeat themselves over and over again now. I think Casey makes for a great assistant coach, but as a head coach he is pretty much at his ceiling.

Then we have people on here saying
"But look Casey has coached us to 41-31, we are a top10 defense, everyone is having career high's under Casey"

Those were probably the same chumps who loved BC until he was finally let go LOOOL They just love to ignore the overwhelming bad this guy does on a nightly basis