Everything Masai Ujiri

[planetmars]

There are other teams if you expand to him being a backup big. He isn't a good fit with Scottie, I've been actively saying that for the past several weeks.

You also won't get much value back for him. We traded a FRP, but it was also to get off of Birch's contract, who was injured at the time I believe. I think his value will be like a bench player to match salary and a second round pick.

Yeah the first is a sunk cost. We won't get that back for him. Maybe at best a couple of second rounders.

[A.I]

I think Nurk is better. Warriors love Looney and he's cheaper.. and they need cheap role players.

That's the issue with a non-mobile big in today's NBA. He's not bad or terrible.. just tough to play at times. And I don't think he's a good fit for Scottie.

Maybe Houston could use him. A good backup to Sengun. Not sure how we can get a trade going though. They don't have a lot of contracts that are tradeable.. just a bunch of dudes on rookie deals and then Brooks and Fred.

There are other teams if you expand to him being a backup big. He isn't a good fit with Scottie, I've been actively saying that for the past several weeks.

You also won't get much value back for him. We traded a FRP, but it was also to get off of Birch's contract, who was injured at the time I believe. I think his value will be like a bench player to match salary and a second round pick.

[planetmars]

OKC could be another option. They use Chet at the 5. And I don't think they want to do that either.

[planetmars]

Depends on the team. He'd be an upgrade over Nurkic on the Suns. They just trade for Nurkic though, so that won't happen. Warriors are an option, he'd be a good fit there and an upgrade over Looney. Maybe Mavericks since they have a rookie starting, but Lively has been impressive.

There aren't many teams that come to mind.

I think Nurk is better. Warriors love Looney and he's cheaper.. and they need cheap role players.

That's the issue with a non-mobile big in today's NBA. He's not bad or terrible.. just tough to play at times. And I don't think he's a good fit for Scottie.

Maybe Houston could use him. A good backup to Sengun. Not sure how we can get a trade going though. They don't have a lot of contracts that are tradeable.. just a bunch of dudes on rookie deals and then Brooks and Fred.

[planetmars]

Are you saying Dennis is drumming up Yak's value so he can be dealt ?
There are reports that every one but Scottie is on the table.

I'm saying that Jak is not a good fit for Scottie either. I don't think value will be raised for any Raptor. They are who they are at this point. All these guys are over 26-27 years old and have been in the league for like 7-8 years.

But who needs a player like Jak? He's making $20M for another 3-4 years. And can only give you about 25-28mpg. Boston wanted him last off season but they have Porzingis now. We should have let them have him.

[A.I]

What's the positive spin on Jak with Scottie? Jak was brought in as he was Pascal and Fred's buddy and they needed a center. He was there to help his core guys. Fred parted.. they resigned Jak (likely to not lose that pick for nothing). But I don't think it's a good fit at all. The question is can he be moved? He's locked up long term but he's still a role player and maybe considered a backup big on a lot of rosters. Scottie should play with a mobile center even if he ends up being a 37+ shooter. Since he's good at driving to the rim. And is not a good PnR partner that Jak needs.

As for Dennis, I mean I think that's why they got him to start. He was Fred's replacement. Not Scottie's backup. Otherwise they should have just gotten nobody and just used Flynn as the backup.

Depends on the team. He'd be an upgrade over Nurkic on the Suns. They just trade for Nurkic though, so that won't happen. Warriors are an option, he'd be a good fit there and an upgrade over Looney. Maybe Mavericks since they have a rookie starting, but Lively has been impressive.

There aren't many teams that come to mind.

[Kagemusha]

What's the positive spin on Jak with Scottie? Jak was brought in as he was Pascal and Fred's buddy and they needed a center. He was there to help his core guys. Fred parted.. they resigned Jak (likely to not lose that pick for nothing). But I don't think it's a good fit at all. The question is can he be moved? He's locked up long term but he's still a role player and maybe considered a backup big on a lot of rosters. Scottie should play with a mobile center even if he ends up being a 37+ shooter. Since he's good at driving to the rim. And is not a good PnR partner that Jak needs.

As for Dennis, I mean I think that's why they got him to start. He was Fred's replacement. Not Scottie's backup. Otherwise they should have just gotten nobody and just used Flynn as the backup.

Are you saying Dennis is drumming up Yak's value so he can be dealt ?
There are reports that every one but Scottie is on the table.

[planetmars]

I mean, Thad and Temple aren't really basketball moves. They were never going to play. It's about veteran stuff in the room to help the younger guys (and trade ballast, in Thad's case).

Jak they clearly thought fit with Scottie long term and I happen to think they were right.

If they promised Schroder a starting spot, then that's a huge mistake. But I don't know that they did, considering the verbiage around him all summer. He's basically exactly what they needed as a backup PG, so easy to see how that was the vision. But the execution has obviously been terrible if that's the case.

What's the positive spin on Jak with Scottie? Jak was brought in as he was Pascal and Fred's buddy and they needed a center. He was there to help his core guys. Fred parted.. they resigned Jak (likely to not lose that pick for nothing). But I don't think it's a good fit at all. The question is can he be moved? He's locked up long term but he's still a role player and maybe considered a backup big on a lot of rosters. Scottie should play with a mobile center even if he ends up being a 37+ shooter. Since he's good at driving to the rim. And is not a good PnR partner that Jak needs.

As for Dennis, I mean I think that's why they got him to start. He was Fred's replacement. Not Scottie's backup. Otherwise they should have just gotten nobody and just used Flynn as the backup.

[Kagemusha]

on reddit, someone wrote out a summary of Nate Duncan and Hollinger podcast

"Nate makes the analogy with Sam Presti, who was a brilliant GM for many years and then went insane and made horrible deals for 3-4 years and then has been amazing again ever since. He says it's possible that Masai might go through a similar evolution, but it's unclear. Historically, he uses examples like Joe Dumars, Jerry Krause, Mitch Kupchak who all had great runs and then just fell off or the game passed them by, and Presti is the only one who has bounced back. "

An exec that stays on the job for a bit too long becomes attached to his players.
It's common nature.
The one deal that earned Masai that top exec badge was the Melo deal.
A deal he made in 2011, TWO YEARS after he became the Nuggets GM.
He has no attachments with the players involved.

Btw, Masai was historically one difficult partner to deal with.

Masai played the two teams against each other so hard it even made then Nets owner Mikhail Prokhorov publicly pronounce in January that the Nets were out on a Melo deal because the asking price had become too steep. They of course weren’t really out and the Melodrama drug on for another month, culminating with Melo patting himself on the back for how he managed to stay focused during the distractions he had created himself. Finally, on February 21st, 2011 as teams were heading back from All Star break the news broke: Carmelo Anthony had been traded to the New York Knicks.

https://www.denverstiffs.com/the-car...ilo-gallinari/

[DanH]

Part of the issue is they traded for Jak by giving up a future, and then also locked him into a 4 year deal. Then they gave Schroeder a 30 year point guard who can't really space the floor and likes the ball in his hands a 2 year deal.. plus likely promises that he would be an every day starter. They also gave Thad his full guarantee, but then also brought in Temple.

It's not pivoting. It's doing more of the same.

We will see how much they want to really build around Scottie by February. The December soft deadline is not really helpful since a majority of the "free agents" who cannot be traded until now aren't great or will be untouchable.

I think having so much parity around the league has hurt the Raptors front office not helped them. Masai was better when there were a lot more bad teams than good teams.

I mean, Thad and Temple aren't really basketball moves. They were never going to play. It's about veteran stuff in the room to help the younger guys (and trade ballast, in Thad's case).

Jak they clearly thought fit with Scottie long term and I happen to think they were right.

If they promised Schroder a starting spot, then that's a huge mistake. But I don't know that they did, considering the verbiage around him all summer. He's basically exactly what they needed as a backup PG, so easy to see how that was the vision. But the execution has obviously been terrible if that's the case.

[planetmars]

Trying to parse out the Raps the last 3 years is largely futile. Not sure it's anymore complicated than that Ujiri wanted to give Siakam and FVV every chance to succeed cause they were key guys on title team and they stayed. There could have been other factors, for sure, but it seems to have boiled down to that.

Now that it has failed (FVV gone, Nurse gone, Siakam a UFA they won't extend, OG a UFA) they need to pivot. This next part, transitioning to the Barnes-era (or post Siakam era if you prefer) is what they need to get right.

Part of the issue is they traded for Jak by giving up a future, and then also locked him into a 4 year deal. Then they gave Schroeder a 30 year point guard who can't really space the floor and likes the ball in his hands a 2 year deal.. plus likely promises that he would be an every day starter. They also gave Thad his full guarantee, but then also brought in Temple.

It's not pivoting. It's doing more of the same.

We will see how much they want to really build around Scottie by February. The December soft deadline is not really helpful since a majority of the "free agents" who cannot be traded until now aren't great or will be untouchable.

I think having so much parity around the league has hurt the Raptors front office not helped them. Masai was better when there were a lot more bad teams than good teams.

[slaw]

on reddit, someone wrote out a summary of Nate Duncan and Hollinger podcast

Trying to parse out the Raps the last 3 years is largely futile. Not sure it's anymore complicated than that Ujiri wanted to give Siakam and FVV every chance to succeed cause they were key guys on title team and they stayed. There could have been other factors, for sure, but it seems to have boiled down to that.

Now that it has failed (FVV gone, Nurse gone, Siakam a UFA they won't extend, OG a UFA) they need to pivot. This next part, transitioning to the Barnes-era (or post Siakam era if you prefer) is what they need to get right.

[A.I]

on reddit, someone wrote out a summary of Nate Duncan and Hollinger podcast

Some interesting notes. Masai is the President and Vice chairman now, so wonder what new responsibilities he has. Its always possible he has relegated more of the Raptors stuff to Bobby since he is the GM.

As for Nick, he was always a good coach. Besides the roster issue, it feels like he lost the locker room last season with reports saying there were tension between Fred and whoever else and the young guys on the team. After Nick's comments in the Philly presser, whether he was fired or quit, it was time for a coaching change. He wasn't scapegoated or fired just because like some posters think.

[MixxAOR]

• Hollinger has Toronto at #11 on his list now. He says the last thing he loved that the Raptors did was the Tampa tank and drafting Barnes, and it's all been stuck in mediocrity since then.
• Nate: Between the Thad trade, letting FVV walk for nothing and then signing Schroeder (says it was obvious, he was only decent true PG left on the market), Poeltl trade (Nate says "shocking that they would be willing to limit their optionality that much this season with so many unknowns between new coach, Siakam/OG/Trent expiring, AND shaky performances to begin with), this front office has basically made a terrible decision at every turn for 2.5 years straight since the tampa tank/drafting Barnes.
• Nate says they are the hardest team to rank because they've been arguably the best organization for about a decade and one of the worst for the last 2 seasons
• Hollinger wonders if Masai just got too caught up in other things (outside of basketball) and lost sight or priority of the team
• Nate thinks maybe that's true because they've been unsuccessful at finding the next Norman Powell or late draft/undrafted talent (the way Miami does) in recent years, and they were previously really great at it. However, his bigger concern is with the overall strategy and direction that has just been terrible, and that's something that can be figured out easily, not a "stop paying attention to the team" thing.
• Nate literally wonders if they might be the team with the most indefensible and head scratcher moves in the last 2 years, none of it makes any sense.
• Nate and John both agreed that every front office person they spoke to said that FVV was never really made available to other teams or seriously discussed with any team, and he was never close to being traded. He disagrees withe the assertion that offers for FVV wasn't good enough, because the Raptors never seriously engaged in any trade talks or negotiations, just a quick "fishing expedition" Masai/Bobby were not serious about trading him. Both Nate and John agree that this was incomprehensible.
• Nate argues that Siakam obviously should have been traded too because he's so similar to Barnes. They play the exact same position, same overall strengths and weaknesses, and there was never even a question of moving him for some reason.
• John comes to the conclusion that this front office looks like one that has a really strong attachment to their home grown talent and struggles to part ways with it, and Nate and John agree that knowing when to part ways with players like that is a requirement of a good front office.
• Nate spoke with a prominent agent in Vegas and asked if the Raptors have lost their edge in development quality recently, and the agent strongly disagreed and said Toronto is still among the best organizations for development and this is still well recognized among other agents looking for landing spots for their players. This reflects well on the front office.
• Nate makes the analogy with Sam Presti, who was a brilliant GM for many years and then went insane and made horrible deals for 3-4 years and then has been amazing again ever since. He says it's possible that Masai might go through a similar evolution, but it's unclear. Historically, he uses examples like Joe Dumars, Jerry Krause, Mitch Kupchak who all had great runs and then just fell off or the game passed them by, and Presti is the only one who has bounced back.
• Nate ultimately put Toronto #24, mainly because they have screwed themselves. Siakam and OG are not going to return big value anymore because they're expiring, or they'll just walk for free. They don't have a pick this year. Purely on the decisions made in the last 2 years, every major decision has merited ranking them in the 20s. Hollinger agrees.
• Nate finds it interesting that Nick Nurse looks like a great coach again. More fuel to the fire that this front office is what has screwed them
• Nate says the Tampa tank made it seem like Masai would never accept mediocrity which was the sign of a good organization, but then they have precisely made moves to maintain mediocrity as much as possible ever since then

on reddit, someone wrote out a summary of Nate Duncan and Hollinger podcast

[Kagemusha]

Europeans are taking over the league dude. The 3 best players in the league right now are Europeans. 2 of the best prospects in the draft next year are Europeans - one of them might go 1st overall.

If we are talking about bigs, sure.
But other than Luka, Europe has not offered any elite guards which if I remember correctly was the context of that discussion.