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  • Initially, I had hoped Lowry would be dealt, but from a basketball perspective, Lowry and Kawhi is a perfect fit on both ends.

    I think DeRozan and Casey are mostly at fault, however. Casey, while he did open up the ropes for Nurse to handle things offensively and make change, when it mattered the most in regards to coaching, nothing did. They still succumbed to isolation basketball.

    At the helm of the iso ball? DeRozan, and while he was third in 4th-quarter points, or something of that sort, his usage rate was bananas, turned the ball over, and was inefficient, and I'm not just talking about last season, I'm talking about this five-year run of "winning."

    DeRozan, as the head man of the Raptors, has proven he's not a 1A. BUT, he'll be a good 1B with Aldridge.

    Lowry still managed to show up in the playoffs, and when he wasn't on the court, it was a much bigger, negative affect vs. DeRozan off the floor. And for god's sakes, DeRozan honestly can't guard anyone.
    Twitter: @ReubenJRD NBA, Raptors writer for Daily Hive Vancouver, Toronto.

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    • ReubenJRD wrote: View Post
      Agreed.

      Look at it this way, if we all found out that the deal was on the table, and Ujiri hadn't pulled it off based on loyalty to DeMar, how would the fans react? How would the media and these analysts react?

      If Kawhi--whatever team he would've ended up on and played for this season if TOR hadn't made the deal--played really well, I'd bank that 90% of people would say TOR missed out on an opportunity.
      Welcome back Reuben! Where you been?? Lol

      But ya, couldn't agree more. They'd find one reason or another to roast us.

      Comment


      • Joey wrote: View Post
        Welcome back Reuben! Where you been?? Lol

        But ya, couldn't agree more. They'd find one reason or another to roast us.
        Well.

        Let me see.

        Went to college. Became a journalist. Now I'm a writer/contributor for Daily Hive Toronto.

        So, I came back to get ideas, and to talk to Raptors faithful.

        I finally have some time!

        Thanks for the welcome, Joey. Damn great to see you on here going strong as a mod. I remember the days when my name was yellow. Christ, I was moderating people at age 16....

        lol, i'm 22 now. it's been quite awhile since I've been on here.
        Twitter: @ReubenJRD NBA, Raptors writer for Daily Hive Vancouver, Toronto.

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        • This trade to get Kawhi by Masai is officially his signature move as a Raptor executive that distances himself from claims that he was playing it safe all these years (never making big moves) and was just building on top of a Colangelo assembled team. Who knows maybe the burner accounts by Bryan taking cheap shots at Masai actually affected him in taking more drastic actions. But that is all speculations at this point.

          This risky move is what Masai's legacy could be remembered or be viewed as the anchor catalyst that starts to drown him. We all remember when Colangelo took a gamble selecting Bargnani first overall over a safe pick such as Aldridge and as a result subsequent moves to justify and build over that decision ended up being just a total mess.

          The move to acquire Kawhi the right move, I just hope it works out.

          Comment


          • ReubenJRD wrote: View Post
            I think DeRozan and Casey are mostly at fault, however.

            ...

            At the helm of the iso ball? DeRozan, and while he was third in 4th-quarter points, or something of that sort, his usage rate was bananas, turned the ball over, and was inefficient, and I'm not just talking about last season, I'm talking about this five-year run of "winning."

            DeRozan, as the head man of the Raptors, has proven he's not a 1A. BUT, he'll be a good 1B with Aldridge.
            Can't put all the blame on Casey and DeMar without putting some on Masai too though. He was the one who kept them in place for this "five-year run of 'winning.'"

            He finally canned Casey and made a change to the core, which was a terrific move, but time will tell whether it was too late.

            If it ends up being like his acquisition of Iguodala in Denver, who bailed after a year, we will have a long tough slog ahead. Which doesn't mean that the Kawhi trade was the wrong move, only that strategic planning requires being ahead of the curve, not waiting five years to reach conclusions that were fairly evident from the beginning: namely that Casey was not a playoff coach and DeMar was not a 1A guy.
            It's the Spicy Show! Time to cook.

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            • Scraptor wrote: View Post
              Can't put all the blame on Casey and DeMar without putting some on Masai too though. He was the one who kept them in place for this "five-year run of 'winning.'"

              He finally canned Casey and made a change to the core, which was a terrific move, but time will tell whether it was too late.

              If it ends up being like his acquisition of Iguodala in Denver, who bailed after a year, we will have a long tough slog ahead. Which doesn't mean that the Kawhi trade was the wrong move, only that strategic planning requires being ahead of the curve, not waiting five years to reach conclusions that were fairly evident from the beginning: namely that Casey was not a playoff coach and DeMar was not a 1A guy.
              I think many people are happy with rebuilding. With Demar, we would be stuck with 3 more years and then an extension.

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              • Scraptor wrote: View Post
                Can't put all the blame on Casey and DeMar without putting some on Masai too though. He was the one who kept them in place for this "five-year run of 'winning.'"

                He finally canned Casey and made a change to the core, which was a terrific move, but time will tell whether it was too late.

                If it ends up being like his acquisition of Iguodala in Denver, who bailed after a year, we will have a long tough slog ahead. Which doesn't mean that the Kawhi trade was the wrong move, only that strategic planning requires being ahead of the curve, not waiting five years to reach conclusions that were fairly evident from the beginning: namely that Casey was not a playoff coach and DeMar was not a 1A guy.
                I mean, yeah, but do we know that there was a similar trade available before now, and that he passed on it? These sort of opportunities come along very rarely.

                In all likelihood, moving on from that core earlier meant rebuilding. Holding on long enough to be able to take this chance could indeed backfire, but at least we have the chance. And we might end up rebuilding anyway (as we would have had he not done the Kawhi trade), so you could see it as an inevitability that was put off longer than it should have been - but if Ujiri's decision to wait somehow yields Kawhi Leonard locked up long term? Kind of hard to "blame" Masai for a single thing.
                twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                • DanH wrote: View Post
                  I mean, yeah, but do we know that there was a similar trade available before now, and that he passed on it? These sort of opportunities come along very rarely.

                  In all likelihood, moving on from that core earlier meant rebuilding. Holding on long enough to be able to take this chance could indeed backfire, but at least we have the chance. And we might end up rebuilding anyway (as we would have had he not done the Kawhi trade), so you could see it as an inevitability that was put off longer than it should have been - but if Ujiri's decision to wait somehow yields Kawhi Leonard locked up long term? Kind of hard to "blame" Masai for a single thing.

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                  • golden wrote: View Post
                    Butler and George were definitely in play earlier, so I guess there’s a minor argument to be made there. But IMO, prime Kawhi is a notch above those guys, so I’m glad it played out this way - other than Casey should have been let go after the Wiz series so we’d already have that new coach in place for 3 years instead of trying to win with a rookie.
                    Yeah, I definitely don't have any issue with criticizing Masai for holding onto Casey for so long. Not at all.

                    George is definitely a step down, though Butler is close - but in both cases, neither team seemed likely to want a player like DeMar or Lowry in return, so we wouldn't have been in on those deals anyway, in all likelihood - especially with both teams seeming invested in moving the player into the other conference.
                    twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                    • Hotshot wrote: View Post
                      This trade to get Kawhi by Masai is officially his signature move as a Raptor executive that distances himself from claims that he was playing it safe all these years (never making big moves) and was just building on top of a Colangelo assembled team. Who knows maybe the burner accounts by Bryan taking cheap shots at Masai actually affected him in taking more drastic actions. But that is all speculations at this point.

                      This risky move is what Masai's legacy could be remembered or be viewed as the anchor catalyst that starts to drown him. We all remember when Colangelo took a gamble selecting Bargnani first overall over a safe pick such as Aldridge and as a result subsequent moves to justify and build over that decision ended up being just a total mess.

                      The move to acquire Kawhi the right move, I just hope it works out.
                      It somewhat reminds me of Pat Gillick with the Blue Jays. Built up a solid organization, but was known as stand Pat. Then he made the Alomar/Carter trade, and went to the next level.

                      I'm hoping Masai has a similar path ahead for this team.

                      Comment


                      • Scraptor wrote: View Post
                        Can't put all the blame on Casey and DeMar without putting some on Masai too though. He was the one who kept them in place for this "five-year run of 'winning.'"

                        He finally canned Casey and made a change to the core, which was a terrific move, but time will tell whether it was too late.

                        If it ends up being like his acquisition of Iguodala in Denver, who bailed after a year, we will have a long tough slog ahead. Which doesn't mean that the Kawhi trade was the wrong move, only that strategic planning requires being ahead of the curve, not waiting five years to reach conclusions that were fairly evident from the beginning: namely that Casey was not a playoff coach and DeMar was not a 1A guy.
                        I think that goes back to the human side--Masai gave them a chance. He rode with the chance and it gave the fans five years of impressive basketball, nothing Toronto has ever experienced.

                        So, you ride with it, and I think it became evident in 2017 when they got bounced that Casey and DeRozan aren't a playoff coach and a 1A guy, respectively.

                        However, Casey managed to change things, DeRozan added a three-point shot (kinda), and they bought into change, thus leading to a 59-win team and the best regular season in franchise history.

                        I think the "long tough slog ahead" is only one year, the final year of Ibaka's and Lowry's deals. Once that's over, it's a full-on rebuild--properly. They have young assets, they'll have a ton of cap space, and they didn't trade away any first-round picks past next season.

                        Worse case scenario, the Raptors still make the playoffs as a lower seed the following year without Leonard/Green. Best case, they manage to deal those expiring deals for assets, miss the playoffs, get a high lottery pick, and they jump-start the rebuild a lot sooner.

                        Personally, people hate losing, but I like when a franchise is being built correctly. I'll take a proper rebuild over a DeRozan-led team with embarrassing, early exits.

                        To me, this is what the trade gives the Raptors:

                        - potentially, a cornerstone superstar that is ONLY 27 YEARS OLD (holy shit) for the long-term (AGAIN, potentially)
                        - a proper rebuild with a ton of assets (young players, cap space, draft picks)

                        Either way, they've managed to stay away from being mediocre, unless the team is gutted and the surrounding cast to Leonard are a bunch of bums, but, most guys are under contract for the next few years. Either way, they'll be adding young players to a competitive roster.
                        Last edited by ReubenJRD; Fri Aug 3rd, 2018, 03:12 PM.
                        Twitter: @ReubenJRD NBA, Raptors writer for Daily Hive Vancouver, Toronto.

                        Comment


                        • I think the references to riding this roster for 5 years overlooks just how much Masai changed things outside of Casey/KL/DD/JV and how big of a revamp the team underwent last year for their most successful regular season - by Masai's directive.

                          This was and wasn't the same team for five years, a lot changed. MU wasn't just giving these guys repeated chances, they were rolling out a better and better roster each season but they kept running into the same wall in the playoffs.

                          MU's super competitive himself. I don't remember the exact quotes and references from TV feeds of him in the tunnels, but those playoff flameouts pissed him off.
                          "We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard

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                          • S.R. wrote: View Post
                            I think the references to riding this roster for 5 years overlooks just how much Masai changed things outside of Casey/KL/DD/JV and how big of a revamp the team underwent last year for their most successful regular season - by Masai's directive.

                            This was and wasn't the same team for five years, a lot changed. MU wasn't just giving these guys repeated chances, they were rolling out a better and better roster each season but they kept running into the same wall in the playoffs.

                            MU's super competitive himself. I don't remember the exact quotes and references from TV feeds of him in the tunnels, but those playoff flameouts pissed him off.
                            To better illustrate your point:

                            2014 - (Rudy Gay), Vasquez, Patterson, Ross, Salmons, J. Johnson, Amir, Fields, Hansbrough, Caboclo
                            2015 - Lou Williams, Vasquez, Patterson, Ross, J. Johnson, Amir, Fields, Hansbrough, Bebe
                            2016 - DeMarre Carroll, Biyombo, J. Johnson, Cojo, Bebe, Patterson, Scola, Powell, Ross, Scola, Wright
                            2017 - (Ross), Carroll, P.J. Tucker, Serge Ibaka, Cojo, Siakam, Poeltl, VanVleet, Sullinger
                            2018 - OG Anunoby, Ibaka, C.J. Miles

                            Outside of Valanciunas, Lowry, and DeRozan, Ujiri has changed the roster a LOT to surround those guys with good talent.

                            Last year, many thought they took a step back, instead, they actually improved by letting the younger guys go to work, while implementing a better offensive system. They brought in OG who fell so low, when he was a projected top-10 before the injury, and Miles, a "sharpshooter" (using that term loosely) at a decent contract.

                            There have been significant personnel changes, as S.R. mentioned, and I think Masai has given that core group five years of solid talent, but could never do it.

                            What a shame, that 2016 year was something special. Had that 2016 roster been there for this year's playoffs, I think that would've been the best chance to make the Finals.
                            Twitter: @ReubenJRD NBA, Raptors writer for Daily Hive Vancouver, Toronto.

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                            • ReubenJRD wrote: View Post
                              To better illustrate your point:

                              2014 - (Rudy Gay), Vasquez, Patterson, Ross, Salmons, J. Johnson, Amir, Fields, Hansbrough, Caboclo
                              2015 - Lou Williams, Vasquez, Patterson, Ross, J. Johnson, Amir, Fields, Hansbrough, Bebe
                              2016 - DeMarre Carroll, Biyombo, J. Johnson, Cojo, Bebe, Patterson, Scola, Powell, Ross, Scola, Wright
                              2017 - (Ross), Carroll, P.J. Tucker, Serge Ibaka, Cojo, Siakam, Poeltl, VanVleet, Sullinger
                              2018 - OG Anunoby, Ibaka, C.J. Miles

                              Outside of Valanciunas, Lowry, and DeRozan, Ujiri has changed the roster a LOT to surround those guys with good talent.

                              Last year, many thought they took a step back, instead, they actually improved by letting the younger guys go to work, while implementing a better offensive system. They brought in OG who fell so low, when he was a projected top-10 before the injury, and Miles, a "sharpshooter" (using that term loosely) at a decent contract.

                              There have been significant personnel changes, as S.R. mentioned, and I think Masai has given that core group five years of solid talent, but could never do it.

                              What a shame, that 2016 year was something special. Had that 2016 roster been there for this year's playoffs, I think that would've been the best chance to make the Finals.
                              Looking at that list you can only imagine if you can right now add Amir Johnson from 2013-2014, Patrick Patterson from 2014- 2015 and PJ Tucker from 2016-2017 on this current roster 2018 .. best defensive team in basketball and one that would put the fear into any team in the league including the Warriors.

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                              • Hotshot wrote: View Post
                                Looking at that list you can only imagine if you can right now add Amir Johnson from 2013-2014, Patrick Patterson from 2014- 2015 and PJ Tucker from 2016-2017 on this current roster 2018 .. best defensive team in basketball and one that would put the fear into any team in the league including the Warriors.
                                I still wish the Raptors re-signed Lou. It was heist for LA when they signed him for something like $7M, but, that would likely mean no Cojo or Carroll, either.

                                I also wonder how Carroll would've been had he been healthy. He was a dog before he got injured, and he was actually quite good.
                                Twitter: @ReubenJRD NBA, Raptors writer for Daily Hive Vancouver, Toronto.

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